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TAY 195: Best ways to go for an instant date

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Today’s podcast we had a bootcamp alumni from 2 years ago share his experiences and progression. We also answered questions about the best ways to go for an instant date.


JAMIE: Okay, I’m recording as of right now.

FRANK: Ok, perfect.

JAMIE: So just when you were listening here, we’re having a little bit of conversation with a former client who came in to the one on one with myself two years ago named Frank, and he was kind of giving his experience, I think it’s going to be really passing for everyone listening here because basically when Frank came in one of the many things he actually wanted to get which was amazing or awesome is he wanted to also not just from dating sciences perspective but he also wanted to approach it from like a business perspective. Using all of these techniques to really attract more clients, get more deals, and get more meetings; really differentiate himself in the business world. I’m going to quote him, from a little informal chat we were having before I hit the record button, that basically, his words, it’s really sales at the end of the day and that’s really the truth, so anyway, yeah. Frank go on, man.

FRANK: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Just like what we said before, it’s sales. I mean at the end of the day if you’re going on a job interview, you’re trying to sell yourself to the employer. If you’re going to a bar and you’re trying to chat to a girl, you’re trying to sell yourself and you want to look attractive to her and all these things, so it is definitely sales. At the end of the day, before the boot camp, I didn’t have the process and that’s what I’ve learned the most from boot camp, that there was a process, I needed the process. How to do it? What are the steps 1, 2, 3? And so we started with the openers and then you had to go and hold the conversations, you need to know your negs, you need to work on your false time constraint which is amazing. The false time constraint is probably one of the best things to ever because like I said I’m using it for business, like if I want to meet a manager in a company, I’m a subcontractor for somebody.

And I wanted to get meetings with them. Usually when you want to get meetings you call them, or email them, or whatever; and you say, “Look, how about we set a meeting for next Tuesday?” Whatever, and things like that. I don’t want that. I want to get it right now, I want to get it today. So I’m like, “Look, we need to set a meeting. We can set a meeting for next week, but how about we meet for 10 minutes for a coffee today. I’m free after 4:30.” Ten minutes for a coffee, quick chat and we get it done. As soon as I do that, most—what happened with me is like 70% of them would say, “Yes, sure! Ten minutes for a coffee, that’s not a problem. Just come over.” And it’s never 10 minutes, it’s always 45 minutes to an hour, so it works! It works. The false time constraints and it’s all about how you talk. You got to be yourself. What we talked about before you hit the record button it was all energy.

JAMIE: Yeah.

FRANK: It becomes really natural. It’s life changing. You need to know obviously for everyone who hasn’t done it, it’s really good to know, it’s really good to do the boot camp. It’s really good to know the steps but what people need it know, it’s hard work. It’s really hard work because at the end of the day, you do the boot camp, few days and you’re done. You read everything, you watched the videos, you hear from people but you need to work them yourself, you need to change yourself and that takes a very long time and we got to be consistent. But it’s worth it, it’s life changing. It’s never about what you want. You—

JAMIE: Can I say something to what you just said?

FRANK: Sure.

JAMIE: You hit one really interesting point, man. These are—tell me if I’m wrong on this one, like okay, you mentioned the importance of the false time constraint, right? And that’s actually one of the few things that’s so critical potentially, but often times people omit it. It’s very easy to say, ah f*ck it! Whatever! I’m not going to do the, hey, I got to get back to my friends or hey, before I go blah, blah, blah. People sometimes forget that underneath these techniques there’s a purpose, there’s an underlying purpose for why you’re doing it. So like looking at your business situation, right? If you make it—

FRANK: Yeah.

JAMIE: Sounds too personal, like hey, I’m not meeting you next week. We either meet now or I don’t know, I’ll just have to get back to you because I’m just a busy guy, it’s impossible for me to lock down a time right now. What you’re really saying to that person is essentially, hey, I don’t have time for this stuff. I’ve got a lot of stuff on my plate. If you’re not able to do something now and you don’t understand that you’re speaking to somebody who’s very sought after, then you might miss out on a very important opportunity. So it’s the words really parlay your position, your frame, your mindset, and you’re communicating value. And so people don’t often times, they negate what you’re really saying by saying these simple words.

FRANK: And this guy is… basically this guy is dealing with 70 companies like mine. And I’m not even one of his biggest subcontractors. I’m just a small guy in the side and its exactly what you just said. As soon as I met him that day, when I did this, as soon as I met him, the first thing he said to me is like, I know you’re very busy with bigger projects, which I’m not, but that’s what he thought. Because that’s how I said it, and he wanted to work with me and he wanted to grow this business together and I’m like fine, I can do what you want just let’s do it right. And now we even became friends.

We go out together, we go to bars, we got to do stuff together, and it’s always at the end of the day you’re dealing with humans. It’s not always work. It’s not always you have to go by the book and it was a life changing experience for me, but it really works. But you have like what I said earlier, you have to work hard on yourself. And about the false time constraint, I used it about a month ago and I went kind of like—definitely not by the book, I was at a bar with a friend. I swear to god, I was at the bar with a friend of mine and we were supposed to bounce from that bar to another and just as soon as we decided a really hot chick walks in sits by the bar with her friend and winked at my friend like damn man, she’s hot! And I don’t know where she’s from.

I don’t know what nationality that is. You can never tell where she’s from. She looks—but she was definitely one of the hottest girls in there. We were about to walk out paid our check and as soon as we walked out I went to her, and I went between her and her friend and I said, hey I got to go. My friend is leaving already, he’s going to the elevator, but before I do, I really need to get your number. I want to take you out tomorrow. She looked at me and said, give me your phone right now. And that’s how it happened. Use the false time constraint and it’s what we said, its energy.

Go, I went, with the sound like hey, I really want to take you out tomorrow and she said okay, straight away, because I think the biggest fear that people have is the approach anxiety. What’s the worst thing that’s going to happen if she’s kind of reject? So what? Next. Go to the next person, but it works most of the time. It works most of the time. I would say 85-90% of the time. So it’s been—

JAMIE: Can I add something to that? Would that be okay, Frank?

FRANK: What did you say? I couldn’t hear you.

JAMIE:              Can I add something with what you just said?

FRANK: Yeah.

JAMIE: You’re hitting on some great topics, man, and I definitely want to make sure we don’t get too far ahead before, and this is actually just not even going to your experience per se but you know I read this great book this year. Phenomenal. We talked about it at the VIP call, called—actually one of the other clients recommended it, it’s called, Courage: The Joy of Living Dangerously. Have you heard of it?

FRANK: No, but I’m writing it down right now.

JAMIE: It’s phenomenal. I mean a client recommended it at one of the VIP calls just within the last six months. Dude, I loved learning from people in general. I don’t give a s*it who it’s from. If it sounds like it’s valuable and it’s a short read and it’s amazing and what he said really delving down even deeper, biggest fear is approach anxiety. Well, what that really means is the biggest fear that people have is the opinions of others. If you think about it, that’s really what that means because if you approach somebody you’re afraid that she’s going to have an opinion of you that’s not good.

Now watch this, if you go even deeper than that, you’re like well what does that really mean? What that really means is people have a fear that someone will have an opinion of them, a negative opinion but what they’re really fearing is that if that person has a negative opinion then they’re going to keep something from you. Like, oh my god! If I approach that girl and she’s got a negative opinion of me, she’s not going to go out with me, she’s not going to make out with me, she’s not going to come home, she’s not going to do any of these things and the illusion is that this person has control over my ability to experience these things.

FRANK: Right.

JAMIE: But it’s not true! It’s complete b*** s***.

FRANK: Right.

JAMIE: Because there’s not one person out there—

FRANK: It’s an illusion. It’s just an illusion.

JAMIE: It is! It is, and when you recognize that, the approach anxiety symbolizes the opinions of others which really symbolizes the illusion they have control over your life which is not true, and there is not one person in this life that has any control over whether you experience an ultimate destination for yourself but I just want to throw that in really quickly. It’s a phenomenal book. We talked about it in VIP, it kind of  came out of a call.

FRANK: Can you give the name of the book again?

JAMIE: It’s called, Courage: The Joy of Living Dangerously. It’s written by, the author’s name is Osho. I believe he’s an Indian philosopher.

FRANK: Okay.

JAMIE: I mean, dude, it sounds like you’re doing great and I’m telling you even for myself, I’ve been in this little journey for a little while like yourself. I felt that was a very value added read.

FRANK: Okay. And then I’ll definitely get it. I’ll definitely get it. But you—

JAMIE: You see, some of your points, man. Sorry I feel like I want to add stuff as you’re talking.

FRANK: It’s okay. That’s what the call is all about, right?

JAMIE: Yeah. Exactly.

FRANK: But like what I said, it’s the approach anxiety, it’s a terrible thing. I mean everyone, everyone has it, everybody. But when you think about it, really think about it if you don’t do it it’s not going to happen, so you’ve got nothing to lose, you have to do it. It’s just about forcing yourself to do it and if you do it a few times then it becomes just natural and—but what a lot of people—I think what a lot of people do especially when they do pick up is they start going out and then they focus on the hottest girls in there, but that’s not… I don’t think that’s what pick up is about. You’re going to get there, but talk to everybody. That’s what you should do. You are a great person, you go out, you talk to everybody, and then after that you choose who you want to stick with because what if—and that even happened to me. I’ve been in a relationship for about eight months after that.

JAMIE: After the boot camp?

FRANK: After the boot camp, yeah. So what was I doing in those eight months? I had those skills, I still use them. I went and I met friends and I met some clients and I met—you just go on and you meet people just this high energy person and that people want to spend time with you. It’s not—

JAMIE: Cool, man.

FRANK: Just about pickup because if you’re talking about pickup, I mean eventually you’re going to meet a good girl; you’re going to be with her then what? It’s really—it’s a lot more than that. What was I going to say after that?

JAMIE: Well, while you’re thinking about that, you’re right. It’s a connection tool. Like I mean, we’ve had—I think it’s good for people to know, too like I mean how many times, Frank, have you had where, for me there are many times where I meet people in various places, right, like maybe a grocery store for example. And how many times I meet someone, have a nice little conversation, I’ll even follow them around for—well, not follow them but I’ll accompany them, that’s a better choice of words for a couple of aisles.

Hey, I’m enjoying this. Where are you heading to next? And we’ll spend like five to ten minutes together with this random individual I just met in the grocery store but at the end sometimes, there doesn’t have to be an outcome. I don’t go for a phone number, I don’t ask for—because for whatever reason, maybe I’m not… in the end I’m like she’s a cool girl, she’s cute but I’m not really into her. And sometimes I’d just let it go. I’ll say, “Hey, you know what? It was great meeting you.” And it’s funny because you can see the look in their faces and like, “Really? That’s it? You talk to me in the grocery store, nobody does this, and you’re doing it.

You walk me for like 10 minutes or so and you’re just going to leave without exchanging information? What?” You know it’s interesting but why not? Why does there always have to be an outcome? It’s good to come here, conversations purposeful and say, you know what? If I want to pull the trigger, I know exactly what to do but at the same time, I don’t have to do it for the sake of doing it. I’m totally okay to just let it be exactly what it was which is an experience in interaction. And I feel like when you let go and by the way, what I’m saying here, Frank, I want to hear your take on this.

This is not something I do automatically. I have to constantly remind myself and train myself that this is the life I want to live, this is the way I want to look at things. I want to  just experience interactions for the sake of having them and it doesn’t have to necessarily—there doesn’t have to be an outcome, but when I am able to be in that flow it’s amazing.

FRANK: It is, I agree with you 100%. I mean that’s what people do when they travel on their own, right? When you travel on your own, you meet random people. Let’s say you go to Thailand or you go on a Euro trip, you don’t know anyone there. You just meet random people and start talking to them just to have a good time not to—there’s not an outcome that you’re looking for. You just talk to everybody, you just chat with people, you had fun,, and that’s it! You learn new stuff and that’s it. There shouldn’t be an outcome.

DAN: I’ve got a question. So in the beginning, right, and I understand what you guys are saying about not necessarily needing an outcome, but you think it would be beneficial in the beginning to at least try to get a number just to see if you’re having the effect that you’re looking to get. Just to get the sense that if you wanted to get their number you could get it? From a metric stand point.

JAMIE: From a metric—I like that. Frank, what do you think?

FRANK: I don’t know. I think… look. For me there is no right and wrong, all right? I wouldn’t do it. I’ll leave it to the end because, I mean, for me it’s not really—if it’s going to happen it will happen. But if I’m having a good time with that person then I just want to see where it leads, and sometimes it leads to nowhere so why would I take her number then? Especially for me, I work long hours and then sometimes I had to push myself to go out and in my building there are actually three bars downs stairs so sometimes I go a lot. Just go down stairs and meet some friends, meet neighbors and whatever. I don’t want to do this because I don’t want to get somebody’s number and then not call them and it’s going to be awkward if I see them again.

DAN: Right.

FRANK: But at the end of the day there is no right and wrong. If you feel like if this will give you more confidence, then why not?

DAN: Yeah, I feel like at this point it’s a benefit to me to try to compliance test, try to—you know what I mean? Like take dates with girls that I’m not even super attracted to just to get further along in the process so then when it does matter, I’m not making the same beginner mistakes .

FRANK: Well, I can see your point. I mean you can do. You can even do it in a different way. You can say it in a different way. Instead of getting her phone number you can say, “Hey, you know what? Let me check your Instagram account. I want to see if you’re interesting or not. Let me see your pictures.” You do it in a different way and if you get her Instagram account, then you can obviously message her there and get her phone number from there if you want later. But I wouldn’t do it this way, but if it—like we have said, me and Jamie earlier, you don’t really have to go by the book. You don’t have to go by the book but if it makes you… if you are at a point and you feel like you want to get her phone number just do it, go for it.

DAN: Yes.

JAMIE: Let me tie the stu—Frank, I love what you said by the way. That’s actually great advice. Dan, I’m sure you can appreciate; what’s great about that is you’re still testing right to your metric, I kind of like what you said but at the same time as to what Frank was saying, you’re making sure to offer things only if you’re willing to go all the way with it. Like you asked for her phone number but you’re not going to call, then what the f*ck? It’s kind of like you ran into them again, well how come you didn’t call me? You asked for my phone number and you didn’t call me.

You don’t have to worry about that, but something like Instagram or Facebook it’s more kind of a little bit more low-key. There doesn’t necessarily a promise behind a follow up with that. So that’s actually really great advice. I really like that but I want to  give you, I want to build on what Frank was saying because I think this will kind of help you a little bit. Your overall point I think is awesome because you do want to test. I think that the part what you don’t want to test though is the phone number and I’ll tell you why, and Frank is basically alluding to this.

See, a phone number should be an accounting detail. A phone number is kind of like this, you test her like, hey! Let’s go for a drink later. Let’s just say she says yes, well, then you need her phone number, do you not? Because how else are you going to connect with her. A phone number should be something that you get as an accounting detail because she’s already agreed to something else. So you can test if you want to consider that, you can test your compliance or how—if it’s working, if she is getting attracted to you by going for other things. So you could ask her like you’d basically try to make plans to do something if that’s what you want to do. If she says yes then cool, go for the phone number but I wouldn’t test with the phone number. Does that makes sense?

DAN: Yeah, you broke off for just a second at the beginning of that. So you would test with… ? What would you say, hey, let’s hang out or…

JAMIE: Well not like it… you test by saying you maybe have some kind of social gathering or some kind of thing you’re going to where you’re going with friends anyway. Something you’re already doing regardless of her. You say, “Hey, some friends of mine, we’re going to do blah, blah, blah. Come join us.” So it’s something you’re doing anyway. You could do that to test her and then from there if she says yes—

FRANK: I can add to that.

JAMIE: Yeah, Frank! Go for it, Frank. Absolutely, man.

FRANK: What I said earlier, in my building I have three bars down stairs, right? Three bars and a restaurant. What I usually do when I meet people there and if I want to test them, the easiest thing for me to do is say, “I’m a bit hungry. I want to have a little bit of food and I want to just bounce to that place. Do you want to come?” You’re going anyway, and that can be a test and they usually do became it’s in the same building it’s just right next door, they do it.

JAMIE: Perfect.

FRANK: That happens all the time and that’s a quick test you don’t have to ask for her phone number, you don’t have to do anything. But it’s just what Jamie said earlier, you get the phone number and then you don’t call, and then you ran into them what are you going to do about that? It’s going to be—I mean I don’t know? For me? It might be a bit awkward especially for a girl that’s a bit of a big thing, right?

DAN: Yeah.

FRANK: Giving you her phone number and then not calling her and then you see her again.

JAMIE: I think Frank’s example is perfect. Does that make sense, Dan?

DAN: Yes.

JAMIE: Yeah, then you’re testing, you’re seeing if you got your compliance for attraction for the same time, and what’s also really beautiful about what Frank is emphasizing, by the way, you should always goes—let me make this beyond clear, man, because I know you just did your boot camp. So you should always go for as much as you can. Don’t let her leave. Like I met someone at the grocery store yesterday I stayed with her for two hours. You know, just shooting the sh*t like an insta-date [inaudible00:24:09] Don’t let them leave, keep the date going as far as you possibly can because the more you can build that experience the more solid that interaction is, so always go for the insta-dates just like Frank is just saying. It’s just like push, push, push; because there’s no tomorrow—that’s a reality. There’s no tomorrow. It’s here, it’s now. Oh, you want to talk about next week? No thanks then, because that’s not going to stick often times. Do go for it as much as you can, right, while the person is present in front of you. That’s really going to make it a very solid interaction.

DAN: Right.

JAMIE: So what he’s alluding to there is like he’s going for something right then and there. He’s not talking about next week or tomorrow, blah, blah, blah. Hey! I’m doing this now, I’m doing it anyway. This is something—I’m living my own life, my own world, would you like to come join me? Oh not? Awesome! Well I’ll see you later, it was nice speaking to you. There’s no false pretences. Oh, let me get your phone number—like it just… this is what I’m doing. I got a lot of stuff to do, I got a lot of great stuff to do, and if you’d like to join me you’re welcome. And that’s kind of it. So that’s the way you—he demonstrated it perfectly.

FRANK: Yeah! I used to do other things as well, I used to—not anymore, I used to have a dog, so I used to use the dog excuse all the time. I have to walk my dog, so I’m just going to run upstairs, take my dog for a walk, why don’t you come with me? And they’re like, oh really? What kind of dog? Whatever and all these things and they come! So it’s—but that’s… for me because it’s in the same building so it’s much easier for me.

DAN: Right.

FRANK: But I’d like to add about going out and going to places and that seems to work a lot for me.

JAMIE: Can I say something, Frank, real quick? I just want to say one quick thing. What you just said about having the dog in your building and using it that as an excuse?  I know somebody who cleans up without a little routine. So Dan, if you can get a dog that would be perfect. Just saying!

DAN: I’ve got a cute pug dog, man!

FRANK: No, it really works! It really works like 99.99 % of the time. It’s an incredible simple thing to do.

DAN: Yeah, I mean I don’t have that kind of setup but I can figure out a way to make it work.

FRANK: Yeah, one more thing I was going to say about the places, I mean I don’t know. I hate change so the restaurants that I go to—I go to the same restaurants 80% of the time. Same bars, same whatever and it’s good to become friendly with the people who work there. It’s really good. Now as soon as I get to the bar downstairs or there’s another bar across the road, as soon as I go there people will great me by my name, they know me. All the—everyone who works there knows me, the manager knows me, and every time I go there, like, hey! How are you doing? You’ve been busy for some time. And that is actually, that adds a lot of value to you.

People look at you like, wow! They know him. I go to some of the restaurants like two restaurants and one of them I know manage there, the other one I know that band. And they just come to me like, how are you doing, sir? How’s everything? Is everything okay with you? And that adds a lot of value from you like wow, who is this guy? They know him. They know him by name, who is this guy? And it’s just because I’ve been friendly with them. I just go and say hi and it works. Guys, are you there?

JAMIE: Yeah, dude, I’m here.

DAN:   Okay.

JAMIE: I’m just letting Dan—I’m enjoying the interaction between you and Dan. This is good because remember Dan, he’s coming from… he just did a boot camp last weekend and you—


JAMIE: You’re now about a year and a half into it which is really awesome. It’s a great opportunity for someone like himself, because he’s going to… we all know this, right? It’s not all smooth and planned out.

FRANK: Actually, it’s almost two years now.

JAMIE: What’s that?

FRANK: Yeah! It’s almost two years, so you know as well as I do it’s not smooth all the way through. It’s always like two steps forward, one step back. There’s bloopers along the way, right, you have learning lessons and it’s good for people to talk to others who’ve been through it. It’s like hey, these are kind of things I dealt with, these are the kind of epiphanies I’ve had, this is sh*t that worked and you don’t forget that even your emphasis over the false time constraint, it would be very easy for someone like Dan let’s say, oh, you know, I’m just going to skip that. But you, someone who has been doing this for a year and a half, you would say hey! Don’t do that, that’s a very important thing, it’s there for a reason. So I’m enjoying the conversation between both you and Dan because you’re kind of  like the guide of what’s coming up.

DAN: So with the time constraints and I totally get that. I’m really working off of that script just trying to get a system in place because that is pretty magical and take it from there, there is not outside of quick question, right? In the beginning, I guess that could be a false time constraint but if you know, would you throw more in there in between your routine and the stack?

FRANK: Between more false time constraints?

DAN: Yeah, which is like between, say you’re going from the, you two must be best friends. You’re the good one or you’re the bad one. And then from there, you would say hey, I got to get back to my friend but go into the next one?

FRANK: Look, it depends. I don’t know how to say it. You will learn this with time, all right? You need to say it when you see they are a bit losing interest or something like that, that’s when you need to say it to get them hooked again.

DAN: Yes.

FRANK: But you will learn these things with time and let me give you a little piece of advice, if you’re just going to go for the girls, it’s going to be really hard. When you are out talk to everybody, be friends with everybody. Don’t look for an outcome yet. It took me months and months and months of practice and right now, I met so many really good friends, guys, I go out with them all the time. I met two really amazing wing men just by doing this. So throwing false time constraints in the middle is good if you need it but if you don’t, you don’t have to.

JAMIE: Can I add to that, Frank? Because I think this will build on what you’re saying.

FRANK: Yeah.

JAMIE: Dan, it’s kind of like the neg, for example. The neg is a powerful tool but you have to understand why you use that tool, what is the purpose of it? Well, here’s the purpose. If the girl is responding to you in a way where she has the impression that she is on a pedestal, she is above you, well then the neg is something you use to kind of level the playing field so to speak. It’s a tool you use when necessary, you don’t neg for the sake negging, you use it when it’s appropriate, makes sense?

DAN:   Yes.

JAMIE: So what Frank is saying is really saying the same thing here. The more you start the more you really emphasize why you use it, right? What is the purpose of that? Then you’re not going to want to use it when it’s not purposeful. You don’t want to be like a computer, like a robot but the more you start doing this stuff and the more you reemphasize why you do false time constraint, you’ll understand like,  hey, sometimes I’ll do it, sometimes I don’t want to over emphasize it. I said my piece and they are enjoying my conversation so I don’t need to do it again.

I don’t need to over emphasize, yeah, I really do need to get back to my friends because they’re really engaged, why would you do that, you see? So it will come a time like Frank is saying where you’ll just really get strong on, “Okay, I learned this. I know why I use it. I’m going to be disciplined about when it’s necessary but at the same time, I understand the purpose so I’m not going to use it for the sake of using it. I’m going to use it when it’s appropriate.” That will come with, as you’re saying this that will come as you get more comfortable with the tools.

FRANK: Yeah, it comes with more practice, yeah. Sometimes for example you don’t need [inaudible00:33:45] at all. For example, I went out with my friend and his wife a couple of months ago and his wife had her friends over there. I didn’t need to use it at all because I was with them the whole time so I don’t really need to use it. But I was using other tools and I was qualifying, I was negging, and I was doing everything and it worked! See, it depends on the situation but you need to remember all your tools. You need to practice all of them and it’s really all about trial and error and you learn from your mistakes and it’s going to get better with time. But you have to keep everything in mind and then it just becomes natural.

JAMIE: When you say—if you say discipline, Dan, for like the next three months and every week you’re doing 15 sets minimum and when I say 15 sets, you’re pushing to actual outcome. Where you put yourself out there and you make yourself vulnerable? Whatever that might be that you go for, something where she couldn’t in theory say no. If you do that religiously, disciplined for the next three months, every week; in three months you’re going to become more comfortable with the tools and you’ll really have a real innate feel for them where you’re like I know this is what I need to do here.

I have enough of these experiences of when I do it versus when I don’t do it, so it really starts to become you that’s why you want to  get out there and do the work and do the sets where you come in kind of  like  a student for life, where you’re like, “You know I’m going to try this stuff, I’m not going to be a perfectionist, I’m not going to tie my ego to it but I am going to be disciplined and do it the way I was taught and go out myself have an experience and as you start to do that, over the next three months, you’ll start to become very solid on these tools. I would say, your best thing—basing with Frank is telling you right now is, you got the tools, just do it. Cassidon, also is on the call did the same thing. Just follow exactly like you’re given, do it every week, hold yourself to a number, for example 15 sets minimum, in three months you’ll start to really get in a little bit of a flow. So just have a little faith in the process but be disciplined about it.


DAN:    So I’m already seeing a difference just from the boot camp. For sure, if three months in, I’m putting to work it and I know I’m going to be seeing some results.


FRANK: Try some of it, Dan. It’s going to get a lot better. It’s going to be more fun because it’s not really just pick up. It’s a way of living. It’s going to change your life because you will talk to anybody, you will get whatever you want done and sometimes it doesn’t go your way, but so what? You go for your next target.

DAN:              Absolutely!

JAMIE: All right! So, Frank, anything else you think for—that was awesome! I enjoyed that, listening to both of you. It’s like your past and future self kind of talking to some degree from a client or student perspective.

FRANK: Yeah.

JAMIE: And dude it hasn’t been that long since I did boot camp, man. I did mine in 2011 and I know exactly what’s it like to go to that stuff and it’s interesting because people, kind of like what you’re saying before, people don’t really understand. This is hard work! I mean, Cassidon is on the call, too. Dude, six—not quite six months but maybe four to five months into it, he was complaining. It’s like, “Dude, it’s not working! Yadada.”  I’m like, “Cassidon, you’re not following the model, I know this. We’ve talked about you’re not doing what you’re told. Do what you’re told. Do it consistently. You’ll get there.” Finally he’s listened to me and stopped trying to reinvent the wheel.  It’s so key, don’t reinvent the wheel. All these pieces Dan, have a purpose behind them. There’s a purpose, there’s an underlying purpose for why you do these phases.

Your goal is to understand that purpose and start to get a good feel from practice when it’s time to use that tool and over that time doing the work ,you’ll get into that flow but you just have to have a little faith in the process and that’s really it. But if you’re persistent, the bounty is incredible. It’ll start to really affect your business, your relationships, your friendships; you just become a more effective communicator and I think even your story about the girl in the elevator, if you really dig in deep there, it sounds so simple to someone listening on the call like, oh I just saw this girl and I was like hey I got to go back to my friend but before I do, as the girl’s about to go down the elevator or whatever. I just want to  meet you; I just want to  take you out tomorrow.

I’m not saying that it’s the line for everyone per se, but if you really look at what you’re doing, man, you’re just coming in very purposeful. You have this energy, you want to  speak to her, you’re being clear, you’re being deliberate. You’re doing something that maybe 1% of the people out there do. Most people sugar coat, they kind of beat around the bush, they’re not purposeful, they’re not clear, they’re not direct and here you are! With the energy, the desire, and just being very clear about your purpose. And when a girl hears that, she says to herself, “Wow, this guy ain’t afraid. He’s coming here with clear intent.” Because Dan, things will be good for you. When you approach a girl, she’s wondering two things and you want to  remember this. She’s wondering two things. One, what does he want? And how long is he going to be here for?

See, most people when they get into this, they want to  go indirect because indirect sounds safe, but when you’re not purposeful, when you’re not clear about your purposes, eventually she’s like, “Okay this is weird. Clearly he’s not here for the reasons he’s saying. He’s a** h*** f*cking opinion things and he’s going on and on and on and on. What do you want guy?” When you’re purposeful, that’s why direct approach all the time is very beautiful. It really functions in a way—yeah, there’s some risk there, true, but it’s clear and it’s like she almost got to respect the fact you’re being clear about what you’re looking for.

And remember you can be clear and purposeful and can still be challenging. You can still be a high value guy. You could say, “Hey I want to  come over and say hello. So, what do you have going for yourself besides your looks?” You’re still being clear, you’re still being purposeful but you’re still being challenging. And then the other thing again is she’s wondering why you’re there and she’s wondering how long you are going to be there for and that ties into the false time constraint. Hey, I got to get back to my friends. B. A. I got to get going in a minute.

So when you do that, you’re answering these questions she has so when someone hears what Frank said as far as the way he opened and the way he approached this girl in the elevator,  some people, casual listeners are like, “Ah, no big deal.” Really? But when you really understand what’s happening, your answer, your addressing these things from a psychology standpoint, they’re very key. Does that make sense, Dan?

DAN: Yes.

JAMIE: Okay. Good.

FRANK: And look, it doesn’t always have to work. It doesn’t always work with me. It doesn’t always—but it works a lot. And sometimes you approach somebody, they’re having a bad day or they’re just weird.

JAMIE: There’s that, yeah.

FRANK: That’s not your problem. Don’t ever think, what are they going to think of me next? Are they going to judge me? Are they going to… It doesn’t matter. They’re just random people you met and if they’re that kind of people, you don’t need them in your life so it doesn’t matter.

DAN: Yeah, I mean I think yesterday was kind of a big moment for me. After the failure I mean I was going to my improve comedy jam, I do improve comedy, and they’re waiting beforehand and this guy that was going to do some stand up, his sister-in-law came in, I was talking to him. She sat next to us and so I just started to run through the routine. There was some energy there and then I went for the number and basically, no go. And I think in the past, I would have gotten a little butt hurt and awkward about that, but I just checked my energy up and just said “Hey, it was great meeting you guys.” I was still as happy as I was when I came into the set. In the past I would have been worried about, oh, am I shitting what I eat here. Are they going to be talking about this? You know, word’s going to get around and then whatever, whatever. It’s just a lot of that. I’m not saying that I’m not going to still have issues with that but it was eye opening just to go through it and not have that butt hurt—

FRANK: Yeah.

DAN: Badger afterwards.

FRANK: Like I said earlier this will get a lot better with time. But I can see—I think you were reacting in a good way. You’re not always going to get a number. And to be honest for me, I don’t really push for the number but I do it in a different way. I got this jazz place that I go to every Monday to have a big jazz night every Monday and I go there. Where I’m living, Monday is midweek. We start the week—we work on Sundays. Our days off here are Friday and Saturday. So we go there every Monday and it’s kind of a big night and what I usually do is, if I’m not sure if I’m going to get a number or not, what I usually say is, “I go to this amazing jazz night every Monday. They do the best pizzas in town and it’s amazing. I always go there with my friends every Monday. You can join if you want.” And take it from there. It’s basically a test before I get their number if I’m not sure.

DAN: So you throw it out there and then if you’re getting a positive sign that she wants to do it, maybe she—


FRANK: And a lot of times I get a positive sign that she wants to meet, she wants to go to this place, she wants to check it out. So I’m like, “Cool! Give me your number and I’ll give you a call.”

DAN: Right.

JAMIE: Something good to add to that is, Dan you can make any place your bounce location or date—whatever. And it doesn’t have to be that crazy. You just have to make it sound—you just have to present with enthusiasm. Like there’s no way that—I mean, it’s cool like listening to Frank, because how much he started to internalize this stuff and has been internalizing this stuff. Listen to what he said like, “Dude, they have the best pizzas in town. Oh my god, you are like you wouldn’t be able to speak it’s so delicious.” You can make anything. You make pizza sound like a place she’s going to want to experience. So don’t worry too much about what it is. You just have to be able to present whatever that offering is to her with enthusiasm like it’s something that she’d be missing out if she did not go.

FRANK: Yeah. And just say that you’re going with your friends anyway, so you’re going to be there anyways.

DAN: Right.

FRANK: So, it’s not like you’re [Unintelligible 00:46:49] for her.

DAN: So funny enough, it was kind of funny at the boot camp. I kiss closed this girl, right. Did you hear about this?

JAMIE: No I didn’t. No. Share, please.

FRANK: Okay, okay. So I got her number, right? We were going from what it looks like a club crawl, so we were leaving that club to go to the next. I’m like, “Hey, I got to go.” After I got the kiss close, “Let me get your number.” Then I texted her later that night, then Angel was kind of  helping me move with the text and she… let me see if I can—I think I might even be able to just read it to you. What ended up happening was, is that she thought that there was going to be an after party at my hotel, right? But there was no after party.

JAMIE: Mm-hm.

DAN: Do you see what I’m saying?

JAMIE: Yeah.

DAN: But anyways, she ended up showing up with this like ghetto drug dealer. It was weird I thought she was coming with her friends but she showed up with this guy that she just—that was really awkward. I got this [inaudible00:48:06] from this girl in my hotel room afterwards and she was disappointed. She’s like, “Oh, real cool after party!” Right? Not that it mattered to me at this point. I got turned off by the whole deal, but, nonetheless, you ever worry like okay you say that but then you have to either round your friends up to meet at that pizza place, right? Or come up with some lie about how it didn’t work out with your friends to make it seem like… you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

FRANK: Yeah, it makes sense. Well, basically the way I say it is different. The way I say it is like, I’m always there every Monday with friends or whatever. So if my friends are not there, she’s coming with me. It doesn’t matter. But I wouldn’t say anything about after party at my place, man.

DAN: Let me see if I can tell you what happened.

JAMIE: That’s an awesome story. I don’t think I’ve heard one of those before like that.

DAN: Yeah, it was like—okay, so Angel sent this like, “Let’s hit Danny’s after the whole f*** up some all you can eat pancakes.” And then, she text me, “Where’s the after party question mark, right?” I said, “F*ck, yeah! JW Marriot Downtown. This is still Jason, right? She said, “Address? We got some drugs. You all have some booze?” Which I didn’t, I thought that there’ll be beers in my refrigerator and there wasn’t. I didn’t even check. So I said, yeah! JW Marriot, I was giving her the address. And then, b*** s***, b*** s***, she came by. You know, I thought, even though I didn’t have the results that I was looking for, it was still a major success and getting a kiss close which in this kind of setting, like just going out with that purpose, I haven’t really ever turn that back quickly. It looks like a 10-minute interaction. It was still a success in fact [inaudible00:50:35] but it was—no, it’s not… I have—you know the good thing about this journey is that you’re going to have a lot of funny stories like that that you wouldn’t otherwise have had you not gone out there and set yourself out.

FRANK: Ditto.

JAMIE: I’d say if anyone’s listening to this call here stop f*cking around, pull the trigger, get some experiences, have some fun, doing a lot of drug dealer and some random girl coming to your place. That’s awesome. I mean that’s a great story man and I love that you appreciate the beauty of what’s happening. Just even the fact you’re having random things happening I never had, I mean I remember my fir—let’s see I remember my first year but my second year into it, dude, I got twice in one year a hand job on a plane and that’s a story for another time. These are the things you would ever imagine were even possible really. Like—

DAN: Wow!

JAMIE: Yeah! Look, along the way, too you have bloopers as well. Like let me make it clear to anyone listening here. Dan, you’re going to have them, Frank I’m sure you’ve had them. You’ve ones that don’t go off but they’re still great stories. They still give you a laugh. I mean I’ll tell you a story offline that you’re not going to believe that happened to me but I mean, just like the other weekend in New York. But it didn’t go well, it didn’t have a final result per se but the story’s amazing. So we may just ask for stuff like that adds excitement to your day, to your life and wow, guess what? Full circle! Now you have this great energy and coming to have more conversations with people. So it’s like this never ending cycle of this energy, enthusiasm, and stories and—what the f*ck else do you have at the end of the day except for the stories of your life and your experiences? So give yourself some experiences, right? I mean that’s what it’s all about.

DAN: You can get a good DHV out of it. You know.

JAMIE: Yeah! Abso-f*cking-lutely!

DAN: Yeah, I’m loving it. I can’t tell you how excited I am just having gone through the boot camp, going out there with more of a purpose versus before I was like, you know it was like we were talking about starting a conversations off that—

JAMIE: Yeah.

DAN:  Just no purpose like no rhyme, reason, you know… just a line and then see what the happens. This gives you a lot more tools.

JAMIE: Wonderful. Anything else? Dan, do you have—maybe you want to ask Frank? Or I can? I really like the interaction to me too. Is there anything else maybe you want to kind of  hit before we maybe start to close up shop?

DAN: I think I’m pretty good. I mean I do have some questions for you that maybe I can save for later this afternoon with regards to the handbook that I’m kind of working through.

JAMIE: Yeah, yeah. Let’s take that offline, that’s fine.

DAN: Yeah. So, I’ll give you a call back when I get off with work.

JAMIE: Okay, sounds good. Earlier is better than later. Just so you know. So I mean, for example if we could speak directly after we get off the call here that will be ideal. Because after about like in a few hours I’m kind of lock down for the rest of the day, so, but anyway, call me back if  you can after the call, okay?

DAN: Okay, let’s do it.

JAMIE: All right. Frank, anything else you want to add, man? This has been an awesome call. I’ve really—it’s great listening to your progression and how much you like clearly internalize this stuff so anything else you think might be viable for one  starting the journey?

FRANK: Yeah, I mean you tell me something and that was really good. I mean, what you taught me was about everything that happened to your life is just a story. So everything that happened is just a story so leave the bad ones, never talk about them. You can talk about them maybe talk about them with your friends.

JAMIE: Yeah.

FRANK: Because sometimes when you’re feeling bad or whatever you need to talk about it with somebody. You can talk about them with your girlfriend when you have one but for most of the time it’s just… when you have stories look at the cool ones. Work on them. Make them sound better. Just work on them and trust me everybody got so many interesting stories and you have to work on to your stories. It’s amazing. You have no idea. I have a story that I worked on. I wanted to hire a driver couple of years ago. I just wanted a normal guy. Just a guy with a driving license and that’s it, just to drive a van from A to B and that was it.

So I started interviewing people and then the first person who came to me. I saw this guy, he was in good shape. He was wearing a suit and tie and whatever and he came to for the interview and I was wearing a T-shirt and jeans and whatever. So I was looking at him like, “Damn! Am I going to work for you or are you going to work for me?” and he said, “Oh no, no sir. I’m here for the driver.” I said “Are you sure?” and he said, “Yeah, yeah, yeah!” I said, “Cool. What did you do before? What do you do right now?” and he said, “Well, I don’t have a job right now, but before that, I used to be a man stripper.” And I’m like, “Damn!” so I’m using this story right now.

I’m talking but obviously I use it when I’m talking to some girls that are, let’s say if I meet somebody in a nice place and I see that they have a really good job or whatever, and I’m like, “Yeah, you know what? I hired a stripper. And you’re so cool? Do you want to meet him?” And they’re all like, “Oh my god! You hire strippers for a living?” “You do this!’ “You do that!” You—it’s just a story and if you work on it and you say it right, everything can be funny. Everything can be interesting.

DAN:    Right.

FRANK: You just [inaudible00:57:22] to your story telling and how you say it and that’s it. I wanted to hire a driver and end up with a stripper.

DAN: Yep. So happen that there’s—

FRANK: So for so many—

DAN: There’s a story telling class at the comedy house that I go to, but I think I’m going to try to get it into that. If I can’t work out this—

FRANK: Oh yeah. That would be awesome. Story telling is very, very important. It’s very important. You have no idea. You could talk about—I mean I don’t know if you’ve travelled a lot. I’ve travelled a lot. I can talk a lot about my travelling. I talk a lot about so many things and people don’t have to know like if you’ve done something five years ago because they just happened last month; doesn’t matter. You know, and the good thing about stories, you just repeat it to everybody.

JAMIE: Good stuff. Awesome!

DAN: Good stuff.

JAMIE: So, I believe you guys are good. We can—I think it’s a great stopping point. I mean I really enjoyed this call personally and Dan I think it’s been really good for you particularly and again that kind of… this is what’s coming after the future. These are things to focus on but if you guys are good, I’m very happy to call it. You guys want to—anything else you want to add Frank before we close up shop?

FRANK: I don’t know. If you have any questions you can just send me a mail. I mean, so many things had happened. I had—

JAMIE: Well, I’d always love for you to join on the call again. To be honest, we normally keep this like about an hour or so but I’d love to have you in another call if you’re ever around.

FRANK: Definitely, man. Definitely. It’s just that—

JAMIE: Yeah, especially the way you’re doing it where in some ways, it’s more valuable  for someone to speak to you than even myself because it’s like this guy—you’re living it right now. It—meaning that you’re living a certain phase that is closer to where they’re coming from because they’re just starting, you’re almost 2 years into it. It’s something that they can connect to very quickly because it’s like, “Cool, if I do these things, I can be here quickly.” It’s a nice thing for someone just out of the boot camp to hear, to hear how successful you are that quickly. That quickly but at the same time, still some time in between.

FRANK: Definitely. Yeah. It took time, hard work. I even do some things that a lot of people doing pick up don’t recommend but if I don’t have time to go out, I even go sometimes on Tinder and whatever because you know what, why not? Made the process a little bit shorter, get people from there just usually with me it’s like first day I’m like, “Yeah, you know what?” First day it’s taking me, “How about we can check tomorrow or something? For coffee or whatever?” And it works! It works and then you can do your routine again.

JAMIE: You know, all I tell lastly—

FRANK: I don’t recommend doing it if you have time to go out, but if you don’t, and one day you’re just at home feeling lazy and can’t go out or something, why not? Just do it everywhere.

DAN: For sure.

JAMIE: I think there’s another thing that is embedded in what you just said, Frank, that I think is beautiful like it’s good to emphasize, anyone who says—anyone who in the community who would say not to do that is ridiculous and the reason I’d say that is, if you’re going to reflect yourself, like present yourself to others with this great energy, and the kind of persona that people get attracted to, well, let’s talk about that. That person who feels really good about themselves, one of the things they probably feel in their life is the sense of abundance.

When you’re an abundant individual, you’re going to present yourself differently. Like in business, like your example so before man, when you’re a very successful business guy, you got a place to go, people to see. You don’t have to wait on anyone particular. There’s no special butterfly or any particular person you’d wait for because you got so much going on.

So, even using these various other things like some of these dating sites or apps, if it just adds to your sense of abundance, it adds to your queue, if you want to call that. You’re just going to feel like such an abundant person so when you present yourself to others in these live settings, you’re just going to come across differently because you don’t need to waste your time with anybody. It’s just going to help you feel good about you, the prospects you have, the life you’re living, the stories that you are able to tell; it’s just another way to give you a sense of abundance and that’s a very key thing to give yourself because it’s going to help fuel that engines you present yourself in a much more powerful way. So dude, I think it’s awesome. You should explore as many things that you can. They’re just going to give you a lot more opportunities. Do that, do in person, go to clubs, join social groups, do everything. Almost like give yourself a smorgasbord of opportunity. Why would you not do that?

FRANK: The reason why I think for some people say, don’t go there because especially in the beginning, you don’t want to get comfortable behind this frame. You need interaction—

JAMIE: That’s true, yeah. Absolutely, man, you have cited it perfectly. In the beginning, you want to  make sure you’re using your tools like kind of  like what we’re saying before Dan, you know, make sure you get out there and in person, those 15 sets weekly only count for in person, Tinder’s don’t count for the exercise we’re speaking of.

DAN: Right. Yeah.

JAMIE: But if you want to do besides your 15 sets in person, you want to  do some sh*t on Tinder and Bumble or whatever, that’s awesome. Great! Just, that doesn’t count as far as your practice.

DAN: So wait, when you’re saying 15 sets, just so we’re on the same page, like 15 sets in self-failure, right? Like a—

JAMIE: It only counts if you [inaudible01:03:56] or something. You ask for phone number, again we’re talking about why you would not necessarily do that right away. You go for a make out, you try to bounce her somewhere, like an instant date. You have to ask at the very least you try to move her somewhere.

DAN: Right.

JAMIE: Like for example I do stuff at the grocery store. I will invite myself like, “Hey, I’m enjoying this conversation. I’ll join you for two more isles.” In theory, Dan, she could say, “Oh, I’m busy,” or “I cannot.” “I’m in a rush.” She could in theory say no to me.

DAN: Right.

JAMIE: So the idea is it only counts if you make yourself vulnerable enough where in theory she could say no. You can be in the coffee shop, “Hey, you know I’m kind of  enjoying this conversation. Let’s go sit over there.” “Oh I can’t! I got to blah, blah, blah.” You put yourself out there where in theory she could say no, so that’s the idea.

DAN: Yeah.

JAMIE: A set counts if you make yourself vulnerable to her rejection.

DAN: Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah.

FRANK: And I just want to add. I just want you to that I think Dan, you should find yourself a place just like that pizza place that I go to every Monday? Because that is the easiest thing and as soon as you say this to people, most of the time they’re like, “Oh yeah sure. I’d love to go there.” Because that’s what I say, they got the best band, they got the best pizzas in town and they are amazing. And I go there all the time. I’m there every Monday. You can join if you want.

JAMIE: Awesome.

FRANK: That’ll be easier than asking directly for a phone number and if you get rejected, then no problem. You asked her something and you got a rejection.

DAN: Yep.

FRANK: Because especially, because I do understand especially in the beginning it’s a little bit harder to go all the way to the end. So you got to find a way that’s more smooth.

DAN: Yeah.

FRANK: That’s what I think. That’s my opinion but like I said, there’s no right and wrong. It’s all about trial and error so you try and then you find your way.

JAMIE: Awesome. Great stuff, guys! Frank, I’ll invite you to other calls in the future. I mean I’d love to hear more of that stuff. This has been an incredible call and I thank you very much for taking your time to join us.

FRANK: Thank you. Yeah, I mean I wanted to do this. I wanted to do this. I wanted to share my experiences with you guys.

JAMIE: You know, I’ll start inviting you man. I’ve really enjoyed this and I think it’s an incredible opportunity for anyone going through this journey to hear like kind of the things coming up and stuff so I’ll definitely invite you to once again in the future and yeah, that’s it for today, guys. So we’ll all speak soon, okay?

FRANK: Okay. Perfect.

DAN: I’ll call you right back, Jamie.

JAMIE: Sounds good. Thanks, everyone! Thanks, Frank!

FRANK: All right, thank you. Same to you!

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