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TAY 192: Improving your neg game and discussing approach anxiety

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Today’s podcast we discussed how to neg and show interest. We also discussed approach anxiety and how to do warm up routines to get ready to be in state when you are out.

JASON: Richard?

RICHARD: Hello, everyone. This is Richard Lou from Florida.

JASON: How are you doing, Richard?

RICHARD: I’m doing great. Nice and sunny over here, nice.

JASON: Did you have a question ready?

RICHARD: Question? I’ve got plenty of questions.

JAMIE: Let’s do one. Let’s do one good one but particularly, I know that it’s your first time on the call, Richard, so again, I just want to reaffirm, what we want to do for you which will give you the most value is if you have an interaction from the previous week, one that did not go so well. Just so we can help you kind of break it down and give you some insight on I guess you’d say, the next steps, so that’s the way you’re going to get the most value if you go over an interaction that did not go well, so we can give you some insight, okay?

RICHARD: Sure, I have a few. I’ve had a few interactions.

JAMIE: Pick your best one. The one that really kind of got under your skin a little bit.

RICHARD: I was hanging out by the beach at the park just hanging out as part of my usual routine when I landscape. I go by the beach, hang out, plus some friends, we hang out. There was this very beautiful lady who was jogging. I’d say she was looking for somebody to talk to, very pretty, very, very beautiful lady. So, I’m there hanging out, I take a few steps, I go on the other side of the park, there she was. It seems like she was following me around. I kind of hesitated and the next time I tried to say something, it came out wrong and she…

JAMIE: What are you trying to say?

RICHARD: I was going to say, “Hey, it’s a nice afternoon,” something like that but I think the wrong words came out and I said, “Hey, lady,” something like that. She blushed, she laughed, she left and I didn’t hear from her again.

JASON: Well, I mean, the first thing it seems like you need to have openers in place, right, to use whenever you need them.

RICHARD: That is true. Today, I try to come up with a few openers, very good openers, some really good openers but I have not figured out many openers so far.

JASON: A couple… I guess a couple of tips I can give you off of this is have your openers but make sure it’s field tested material.


JASON: Does that make sense? Do you get what field tested material is?

RICHARD: Yes, I am aware of what that is. The opener I send with the girl but that she was distracting me because I see her walking around, she came back at me a few times. I was going to say, “Hey, you’re distracting me.” I was going to say—I was going to use one of Jamie’s openers and say that there’s something distracting me, could it have been her? It was really a short shore for her nice dog she was watching.

JASON: Well, let’s say you would’ve used that opener, do you think your interaction would’ve gone a little different? Let’s say you came in strong with the opener.

RICHARD: It would’ve because I remember the moment… one of the moments that I stare again, again, she stared right at my eyes and I looked at her close, she’s staring right at the eyes and looked away. I guess it was a little bit of fear. I don’t know if she felt it but that was a fear I see at [00:05:53] Okay, right then, still, I’m guessing that moment plus the wrong opener that I used probably messed up the outcome of what would have been a great interaction between me and her.

JASON: Yeah, in a sense, the first few things that you—is what’s going to determine the whole interaction in a way, right? Because if you come in and say the right things, it’s going to hook her to sit there and keep talking to you. Where, if you come in and say something completely out there, she’s just going to be like, “This guy is weird,” and walk away. So, the importance for you is to get a couple of openers and attraction pieces in place so that you can at least get past the first few minutes of the interaction where you could actually portray who you are and see if you guys have commonalities versus just going up there, making something up, and maybe getting bitten out. Does that make sense?

RICHARD: Absolutely, it does make sense because I remember one interaction of that in which two co-workers, we were… it was a Sunday, Sunday morning. We were getting ready to start up with work and I thought I would do well. I opened… well, it was us co-workers, it was around six sets; six, seven of us hanging out before work. I said, “Hey, everyone, are we ready or what?” “We’re going to get through the day or what?” Kind of in a pumped up way and everybody was like, “Hey, hey, yeah, yeah,” There was this… one of the girls I worked there with at my workplace, I kind of told her a little story. I said that actually happened to me. What happened to me was I was just walking down the road and I was just familiar with the neighborhood. There was this big dog that just ran out of nowhere. The dog looked like it was going to bite me so I told them what I did. I stayed still in once place and I didn’t move for at least five to ten minutes just until the dog left the area then I started [Crosstalk 00:08:40].

JAMIE: Richard, I need to interrupt. Before going through many tangents, let’s really just stay with what we were talking about before. It’s just kind of… let’s focus on that one because we’re going on too many tangents it’s hard to help you because you get overwhelmed. Let’s just stay with that one. There’s a lot to talk about with just your earlier scenario, okay?


JASON: Jamie, do you have more input on it because I mean, I feel really it’s about having—

JAMIE: Yes, absolutely, I want to give something that’s very… no, I’ve submitted to all what you said Jason which is great. Here’s the thing Richard, the thing that makes this work, remember, this is a type of sales. In sales, you’re going to be as good as your pitches. If you’re prepared to handle objections, you’re prepared to start and really push that interaction forward, you’re going to have more consistent results, so that’s why we use a routine stack.

Now, earlier you said, “I’m trying to come up with some good openers.” We don’t want you to do that in the beginning, you just started with us. In the beginning, there’s too many variables that make this very, very challenging. One is the material, two is your delivery; neither are easy to master so what we want you to do in the very beginning is use a material that we know will work because it’s proven. If you have that, that takes away one of the two variables, the material. Hence, you can just focus on your delivery. Well, let’s talk about the openers you want to use in the beginning. Very simple and for you as well as to anyone listening to this call, don’t overcomplicate it, just take one, maybe two. Here are your openers, are you ready, Richard? I’ll give you two. I gave you one when we spoke initially.

The first one is, “Hey, you’re just totally distracting me. I don’t know if it’s reason one or reason two, but I wanted to come over and say hello,” or “I wanted to come over introduce myself.” You pick your—the last part you kind of make your own. Now, in your situation because it’s a structured dynamic, you could’ve said something like, “Hey, you’re just totally distracting me. I don’t know if you’re stalking me.” By the way, anyone else who’s not speaking, please put your mic on mute, okay? It helps everyone else listen so please put your mic on mute if you’re not speaking.

So, let me repeat that. Richard, I’m going to use my opener I gave you in your situation. “Hey, you’re just totally distracting me. I don’t know if it’s because you’re kind of stalking me or if it’s your…,” whatever reason you might have found appealing, whatever that might have been in the moment, “But I just wanted to introduce myself. I’m Richard, nice to meet you.” Does that make sense?

RICHARD: Yes, it does.

JAMIE: See, that also reduces your fear because you know you just use one opener over and over, and over again, so you don’t have to think about it. So, the idea is you take that structure and you always incorporate the current situation. I just took your situation, “Hey, you’re just totally distracting me. I don’t know if it’s because you’re borderline stalking me or that hat you’re wearing,” whatever, “But I just want to introduce myself, I’m Richard, nice to meet you.” That’s your one opener, you got me?


JAMIE: The second opener you can use is Jason’s opener, it’s phenomenal, it’s so simple. This stuff doesn’t have to be mind-blowing, most importantly, is you have something that works and you’re prepared to use it. “Hey, I just wanted to come over and say hello. You just seem like you have really great energy. I’m Richard, nice to meet you.” Hold on guys real quick. Sorry about that little interrupt there. Hold on, that’s my dad, okay, so that’s the one. The second one is, “Hey, I just want to come over and say hello. You know what? You just seem like you have really great energy.” You got that Richard? That’s all you have to do, makes sense?


JAMIE: You have two openers and then the beauty in that is, now, you can reduce your fear because you know what you’re going to say, it’s one or the other, that’s it. You get out of your head and you get into an interaction, clear?


JAMIE: So, don’t do any research man, you got your two openers, just use those. Just use them over and over again, be patient, use them a thousand times, maybe not a thousand, but use them at least a hundred times and then get some feedback and you’ll start to go comfortable with it. You get it? Use those a hundred times each.


JAMIE: Now, what comes next? Do your opener. Again, for anyone listening here, what comes next of the opener? Next comes the cold read. So you got to opener, she’s going to react to you in some way and you must say, “You have…” like, if you remember the book, The Game, I’m just using this as a reference, not because I want you to use this but I want you to understand the logic. In the book, The Game, styles like, “Hey, who lies more? Men or women?” Then the girls react and then, he does this cold read, he says, “Wait a second, are you guys best friends?” That’s a cold read. It’s saying basically, you seen x, you following me?


JAMIE: Beautiful. Now, in our world, because we’re going to make this much more applicable and more applicable to life, something you can use that actually applies at who you are. You’re going to do a cold read, you’re going to say, “You have this blank vibe,” it could be a West Coast vibe and East Coast vibe, Midwest vibe.  You’re going to pick one based on what you think and this is a very important thing and write this down. You’re not trying to be so smart, or blow her mind with your intuitive skills, you’re trying to have fun with her. It’s actually fun to be wrong. If she seems like this very uptight New York, East Coast vibe, whatever, you might say, she seems like she has this cool laid-back Midwest vibe, you following me? You’re not trying to be right. You’re just trying to have fun, get it?


JAMIE: She’s then going to react to you, “No, I’m not. I’m from California.” “Oh, my god, get this…” Then, you’re going to tell a story related to where she’s actually from. The reason I’m telling you since I don’t want you to be trying to figure out a research. In the beginning, I want you just using stuff that work. It doesn’t work, then the reason why it didn’t work is because of one thing, you know what that one thing is, Richard?

RICHARD: No, I don’t. I’m guessing.

JAMIE: Your delivery, your delivery, so what that means, you just need to keep practicing. So, don’t reinvent the wheel, stop with the research, just use what I’m telling you right now for the next month. You’re going to have to do a boot camp soon enough, so this will get you prepped, this will get you primed. While you’re prepping through boot camp, this is what I want you to do.


JAMIE: I want you to do at least a hundred times. Now, you don’t have to figure it out. You know your opener, then you’re going to do a cold read, then you’re going to stack forward to a story that relates to where she’s actually from, and now you’re off to the races, simple. Not easy, this is going to be… you’re going to be testing yourself, man, but at least you know what to do. Okay?

RICHARD: Okay. Yes.

JAMIE: Now, I don’t want to over… I don’t want to confuse you. You know what to do. I’m just going to say, when you start getting really good at this shit, you’ll start knowing some openers that are really relevant for this situation. We have the coach, really playful guy, has a lot of fun but he is a master pick-up artist, he’s been doing this for years. I’m not trying to tell you to be kind of a little… I’m not trying to get… telling you to get off the track here but he might in that situation, girls kind of following a little bit, he might have turned around and said, “Stop   following me.”

He might have playfully called her out as if she’s kind of stalking him. I don’t want you doing stuff like that but I’m saying when you get more advanced, you can start playing, you can kind of start rifting it a little bit. From the beginning, know your material, don’t reinvent the wheel, stay with the same stuff, the opener’s one of the hardest parts in a way but it’s one of the easiest parts, it’s very straight forward, but the art form, the more complicated, the part that really takes some work is the latter phases so you don’t want to overcomplicate the beginning, keep it simple, okay?


JAMIE: Beautiful. Do that, all right? So let’s go onto the next individual.

JASON: So, Gabriel?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, yeah! Can you hear me?

JASON: We can hear you.

GABRIEL:          Perfect, okay, so this weekend I tried going—I actually went to a club but just for two hours but I actually wasn’t able to approach anyone. It was approaching anxiety at its force, I guess. So, if you can give me a few tips on how to overcome this and actually start approaching people, that would be awesome.

JASON: Okay, so I’m assuming it’s a club, loud music, all that?

GABRIEL:          Yeah. So there was one dance floor and it was super crowded but at the same time there was this time when I was super excited but at the same time there was this…like, I don’t know, this place I was in quieter, people they’re talking and you can actually talk to people, it wasn’t too loud.

JASON: Okay, well, first of all, clubs are usually loud, right?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JASON: So, for me, there’s the dance floor, I don’t really go on the dance floor so I try to stick by the bar area where there’s a high traffic or the smoking section which it seems that’s where you were at.

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JASON: Now, you’re at the club, you’re at a good position. Now, you’re approaching, what are you doing to actually approach, are you going right up to them? Are you walking and kind of nonchalant over the shoulder approach? What have you been doing?

GABRIEL:          Well, actually, I wasn’t able to approach. I would see the girls whatever, but I don’t know. It was kind of like a mini panic attack. Just because.

JASON: Okay.

GABRIEL:          So, I wasn’t able to approach.

JASON: So, then it looks like actually approach anxiety slash not knowing what to say?

GABRIEL:          I kind of knew what to say because Jamie gave me the lesson wonders into opener. I also get cold feet so I kind of felt like I knew what to say, it was just the actual approach that scared me.

JASON: Okay, well, in that part. Really, what’s stopping you?

GABRIEL:          I really don’t know. It’s kind of strange because I’m a good dancer, it’s just on the dance floor, I was getting a few stares from girls but I just think that I wasn’t even reciprocating the eye contact or even smiling back because some of them were smiling.

JASON: So in that sense, that’s when you have to really look inside of yourself and just be like, okay, am I going to sit here and wonder what’s going to happen or am I just going to go in there, do it and see what happens? For me, personally, the regret of not doing something is worse than the worst possible scenario of it actually going through. Does that make sense?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JASON: So, let’s say you’re at the club and you make eye contact with someone, you really like them. Would you rather sit there and think to yourself for the next couple of weeks like, oh man, what if I would’ve talked to that girl? Oh, how would it have felt? Would I have been like gotten her number or what ifs, what ifs, all these what ifs, where if you just approach her and let’s say she’s cool and then you do get her number or let’s say you approached her and she’s just like a total bitch and blows you off and makes you feel dumb at that moment. Which one of the two, her blowing you off or you sitting there thinking about it for weeks, which one of the two do you think is worse?

GABRIEL:          The second one.

JASON: The second one which is just thinking about it and—

GABRIEL:          Not doing anything actually.

JASON: Yeah, so it’s almost like you have to just do it to prove it to yourself whatever your theory is.

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JASON: Does that make sense?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, it makes complete sense.

JASON: If you’re out there too, you might want to have a wingman that’s pushing you, not necessarily—they don’t have to be into pick-up but they can be someone that’s actually pushing you to do it.

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JASON: Well, other than that you… and then also, just don’t overthink it. Sometimes, I sit there and over think things even where I’m at and then, I catch myself like, Jason, what are you doing? Just over the shoulder and approach and then I just kind of snap out of that getting in my head mode and I just turn around and approach. So, it’s being able to stay out of that little…it’s like this little thought cycle that starts like, “Oh, what’s going to happen?” and it just leads to a series of other questions that you start asking yourself that ends up making you more nervous where if you do things without thinking almost and start walking, it turns off that part of your brain that’s going to be worried or stressed. Does that make sense?

GABRIEL:          That makes sense.

JASON: So, now, where do you foresee your problem?

GABRIEL:          I don’t really know. I didn’t used to be like this before. I don’t know where it, things started going wrong that I built this so much fear of the approach. I don’t let some… well, that’s not really useful I but when I’m drunk, I’m really good. So, if you really don’t think that you easily talk or manage so I don’t really know, I don’t really know what’s wrong with this.

JASON: Okay, so you’re saying when you’re drunk, you’re good, right?

GABRIEL:          Yes.

JASON: So, what’s the difference between being drunk and being sober, and you approaching?

GABRIEL:          I guess I just don’t have the inhibitions and I don’t overthink things like you said.

JASON: Okay, so how do you think you can replicate that in an everyday situation?

GABRIEL:          I’m not really sure what to without alcohol.

JASON: Well, there’s a couple things you can do before you go out and Jamie can tell you more about these. One of them is affirmations or getting yourself into state.        Doing something exciting before you even go out. I mean, one thing I like to do sometimes when I wake up in the morning and I’m not fully me, I like to just jump in a cold shower. I turn on the cold water and I just jump in and that kind of stuff snaps you into state and being present. Other than that, it’s really going to be just overcoming that anxiety and knowing logically that you’re not going to die by approaching, that’s not going to happen. Jamie, do you have input on this or more?

JAMIE: Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to give you a massive checklist. Write everything I tell you down, okay?

GABRIEL:          Yes.

JAMIE: Tell me when you’re ready, I want to make sure you get everything I’m going to tell you here. This will all help you.

GABRIEL:          Yes.

JAMIE: I don’t know what’ll specifically help you the most but these are all tools that might potentially open up a lot of doors for you, okay? Tell me when you’re ready.

GABRIEL:          Okay, yeah, I’m ready.

JAMIE: So, you say when you drink, you don’t have inhibitions, right?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: What does that really mean? What that really means is when you drink, you’re able to overcome that bullshit mind chatter in your head, that’s what that means, you following me?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, exactly.

JAMIE: If I do this, oh my God, that girl might see this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What that means is—by the way, again, anyone who’s not speaking, turn of your mic, turn your phone on mute because there’s echo, okay? So, what that means is when you’re drinking, you’re able to get over that mindless chatter in your head. Now, let’s talk about that mindless chatter in your head because that’s what you want to be able to get rid of on a daily basis, does this make sense so far?

GABRIEL:          Yes.

JAMIE: Okay, so when you don’t open, you need to start asking yourself these questions. These are activities I’ve gone through myself. Why am I not doing this? What are the boundaries or unrealistic expectations that kept me from opening her? Still following me?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: You need to start asking yourself these questions. You might start coming up with things like, oh, if I keep opening at this place, I’ll get known as the pick-up guy at the grocery store or if I keep doing this, I’ll blow myself out at work and people will think that I’m practicing but you’re going to start finding out what those reasons are, okay? And then, what you’re going to have to do is one by one eliminate those boundaries or limitations. I promise you, every single one you come up with can be overcome. I promise you, you following me?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: So, I’ll give you a great one here. Here’s one that people come up with, “Oh, my God, I might get rejected.” Did you know that everyone gets rejected? I get rejected, Jason gets rejected, Eric gets rejected; rejection is the inevitable. So, if you’re holding yourself to some expectation. If you realize, “Oh, I might get rejected.” That’s a b*** s*** expectation. That is b*** s***, everybody gets rejected, so when you bring it out to the forefront and you realize you’re holding yourself to a level that not even your… if you want to call him this, the person you idolize or the person you’re trying to live up to, you just can’t hold to those expectations, it’s b*** s***, understand?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: So, when you realize that, I’m just thinking through your process, what if you realize, “Oh, I might get rejected. Wait a second, everybody gets rejected.” Rejection is a part of life. The idea is not to fear rejection, it’s to accept that’s inevitable just like death. Death is inevitable so why fear it? You might as well accept it because otherwise, you’re fearing something that it’s impossible to overcome. So when you start to accept things, you start to fear them less.

GABRIEL:          Uh-huh.

JAMIE: Makes sense?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: So, you’re going to take yourself to this process and start asking yourself every time you don’t open ask yourself why didn’t you do it? Find out, ask yourself these powerful questions and you will come up with very powerful answers and I promise you, every answer you come up with can be overcome. Makes sense?

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: I’ll give you another example. What if you just honestly don’t feel good? Okay, let’s explore that per se, I don’t feel good. Well, here’s the thing you need to consider. There are a lot of people out there that do what we do. There’s a lot of people out there that’s not speaking in front of thousands of people. I’ll tell you someone who is probably arguably the number one speaker in the world. I would say the number one speaker in the world is Tony Robbins, okay? Did you know that Tony Robbins would never get out in front of thousands of people ever without doing a process to get himself into state. You can actually watch this online, man. Go on YouTube, Tony Robbins getting into state, open it, so you’ll watch him. He’ll do a process doing some dance moves, he’s yelling, he’s shouting, he’s doing some crazy sh*t.

GABRIEL:          Uh-huh.

JAMIE: So, here’s my question for you. If Tony Robbins, arguably the number one speaker in the world realizes the importance of a warm-up process, a process to get the neurons firing, he knows this. My questions for you, are you currently doing a process to get yourself into state? Are you doing a process to get yourself warmed up? The answer I’m sure is no.

GABRIEL:          Yes, it’s a no.

JAMIE: You’re not doing this. Okay, well, the number one guy’s doing it, why are you not doing this? Makes sense?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, okay.

JAMIE: So, what you’re going to do is you’re going to start to uncover best practices, you’re going to start to uncover unrealistic expectations and one by one, you start to eliminate this b*** s***. Get it?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, get it.

JAMIE: That’s one thing you need to start doing immediately. Every time before you go out, you need to give yourself a warm-up process. I’m going to give you some other tips on that, you might sing in your car as weird as that sounds, you might do your routine stack, you might practice it, you also might remember that this is a type of sales and the best salesman in the world don’t close everybody, right? So, you’re going to allow yourself to fail if you want to call it that. Now, our type of failure is not what you might be thinking. Our type of failure might be like, “Hey, it just didn’t work out.” It didn’t mean we got rejected for saying to girls, “Go f*ck yourself,” but it just didn’t work out. That is the type of failure. It’s the type of failure we learn to be okay with. We’re not focused on the fact that one didn’t work out. We’re focused on the fact that one out of three did work out.

GABRIEL:          Yes.

JAMIE: So, sometimes what we do is you create these rules for ourselves, first three steps don’t count. You need to write that one down by the way.

GABRIEL:          Okay.

JAMIE: You need to allow yourself to have a warm-up process where the first three steps don’t count. Oftentimes, it’s your unrealistic expectations that are keeping you in your head. Clear?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, yeah, clear.

JAMIE: Like I said, I went out, my first set failed if you want to call it that, it just didn’t work out. That’s okay. I allow that to be part of the process. I don’t worry about the first one. I focus on the fact that if I go through five sets, one of them will work out. Unrealistic expectations oftentimes would keep you frozen.

GABRIEL:          Yeah.

JAMIE: Okay? What else, what else… I think that’s good man, you start with that. Get yourself a warm-up process, eliminate those b*** s*** expectations, realize what you’re looking for is to be fearless. What does fearless mean? Fearless doesn’t mean to be courageous, to be brave, that’s b*** s***. What it means is, it means to accept fear. It’s like, you know what? I’m not going to afraid of that, I’m going to accept that. I’m going to accept these things and that’s going to allow me to do what I need to do. And those rituals we talked about, that will empower you to push forward when you are afraid.

GABRIEL: Makes sense.

JAMIE: The secret as Eric would say, one of our main guys or founders, our secret is not to… is to accept fear and instead to embrace it, embrace that adrenaline release and then what you do is you speak slowly, you pause, you enunciate, you put on the illusion of confidence. Using the tools that we give you such as being prepared for your various routines, that’s what you do. You focus on that. Clear?

GABRIEL:          Yeah, clear.

JAMIE: Beautiful, let’s go on to the next caller.

JASON: All right, we have—that was good by the way. That was really good.

JAMIE: Thanks.

JASON:             Upgrade.

UPGRADE:  Hi. Okay, so I got a situation here that happened, this was at the club and I opened someone and started the routines, and this was at the bar and then she left and a little bit later on in the evening, I saw her again and I reinitiated and this was just before the place was about to close and I was able to isolate her and did like the Mensa test and she seemed to think it was really fun and then her friend came over who was probably bored or something who I hadn’t seen the friend before, so I hadn’t had the chance to get her into the conversation or anything.  So, she was probably off by her own and then, I don’t know what she might have done but she looked bored and she came back, and she wanted them to leave.

And shortly after that happened, they turned on all the lights and they closed the club and told everybody that we had to get out and at that point, there wasn’t much more I could do but I kind of wanted to kiss her sort of just to feel like I had accomplished something for the evening.  I didn’t have the logistics to take her with me even if I could have but I don’t think I could but she seemed so concerned about what her friend would think, I think that was the reason because we had a really good vibe before the friend showed up. So I was just wondering if you had any tips in the situation like that to kind of just to get her to get her mind off her friend for like five minutes, and then, yeah.

JASON: I mean, the only… did you number close?


JASON: No, because see, the fact that you were with her and then the friend came until the very end, it’s kind of like—


JASON: Well, you can bounce some, you can be like, “Hey, you know what, let’s grab some food after?” or like—


JASON: You say you didn’t have the logistics to take her back to your place but, “Hey, you know what, let’s go grab some food. I know a really cool spot down the street,” “Okay, sure.”


JASON: Let’s say they say no to that. “Hey, you know what? Before I lose you in all these madness, put in your number.”


JASON: Honestly, that’s one of my favorite go to lines now for number closing. I’m just like, “Hey, you know what? Before I lose you, put in your number,” and typically, I like to get it early on in the interaction and all that.


JASON: But, well not but, other than that, it’s kind of hard to isolate because if the friend is just there with the friend—


JASON: More times than not, they’re not going to separate.

UPGRADE:  Okay, yeah.

JASON: I’m sure you’ve seen that by now.


JASON: When it’s a group of random girls where they just kind of know each other, I think the probability of one of the girls separating and going with you is very high—


JASON: Compared to when they’re all really close friends and they came together, they’re going to leave together kind of mindset.

UPGRADE:  Okay, yeah.

JASON: So, other than that, it would’ve been for sure getting the number. You know you could’ve been—you could’ve sneaked in a little cheek kiss, not sneaked in but you know, planted a little cheek kiss or just a quick peck or something as you were getting the number.


JASON: Yeah, I mean, I can keep giving you little random kiss examples but I think you get the situation, right? There’s—really once a friend comes, you’re kind of screwed unless she’s willing to drop her off and hang out with you afterwards.

UPGRADE:  Yeah. I didn’t really want to hang out with her. Actually, I just wanted to kiss closing and on the way home, it would’ve felt a lot better than not being able to kiss close.

JASON: Yeah, then do something like that, I forgot where I was but I met this girl and she was telling me she had some car issues or something and I was like, “Hey, you know what? In case I don’t see you and you die on the way home, come here.” And I just grabbed her and started making out with her as I was about to leave.


JASON: So, even if the friend sees, it’s so like unexpected that she’s like, “Oh, what’s going on?” and still goes along with it.


JASON: Jamie do you have more? A different perspective on this, or?

JAMIE: Yeah, yeah, man. So, Upgrade.


JAMIE: And to anyone listening here, what Jason said is awesome, it’s so critical. You remember a lot of what we do, right, is a type of sales.


JAMIE: In sales, there’s some awareness. Okay, time to close. Hey, are you ready to sign on the line that is dotty? I know when it’s your—

JASON: Yeah, I lose mine.

UPGRADE:  Right.

JAMIE: Imagine you had an hour long incredible interaction, all of a sudden the friend comes and, “Hey, we got to go, blah, blah, blah,” you don’t have to be like, you don’t have to be like your best friend go, “Oh, wait, wait, give me your number before you go, please.”


JAMIE: You don’t have to rush that. You want to be smooth so instead you have an awareness. When you’re at a high point in the interaction, the interaction’s going really, really well, you’re like, “Hey, are you on Facebook? Awesome, let’s get that out of the way.” You do it when it’s nice and smooth because it’s already, it’s at a high. Remember, the better you get at this, the more you’re going to start realizing you become more aware when the interaction’s at a high.


JAMIE: And when it’s at a low. When it’s at a high and especially when it’s early like, “Hey, you know what? Hey, are you in Facebook? Awesome. Let’s get that Facebook friendship thing out of the way.” You do it then so no matter what happens, you can exit smoothly. So, what Jason said is critical and that’s awesome so you won’t only always have that awareness but you want to get the contact exchange out of the way early. The other thing—


JAMIE: That he’s hitting on to is one of the ideas is when you go for your day two, you’re trying to step it up and I know in this case, you don’t give a shit about that. I get that, I heard that, but if you did, the idea is you talk about these fun exciting things and you get her to get excited about it so therefore, when you create this day two, it’s like you’ve already talked about something. So hey, even if the friend came over, you’re like, “Hey, oh my God, so I got to take you to blah, blah, blah.” You’ve already talked about it, it’s already established that both you and her have this exciting fun thing to do so it’s easy to set up that day two if it was a situation of course that you did want.


JAMIE: Get it? You want to make out with this girl, awesome. So, I want to first emphasize how key creating that level of awareness that Jason brought to the forefront for you, how important that is, okay? Cool?

UPGRADE:  Yep, yep.

JASON: Now, secondly, so anyone listening to these calls here, I know you’re probably tempted to try and learn this shit yourself. Upgrade will be probably the first one to tell you he’s done a boot camp, he’s starting to have some good success and how difficult it was. It’s not impossible to try and learn this without doing in-person training. Don’t let years go by without doing something to change your life. Even if you could learn this in 10 years, why would you do that to yourself? That makes no sense. You’re like ramming your head into a wall.

Do a boot camp, learn in person how to do this, short-cut this, change your life, stop fucking around. So, for example, Upgrade alluded to this thing called the men’s test. These are type of routines and things that we’ll teach you how to do in person to really create beautiful interactions. Now, I do want to give you some ideas that might help you though in your situation. Again, we know you, we’ve worked with you in person, Upgrade, so okay, so you’ve had this great interaction, this one-on-one interaction. This concerned friend comes over, now all of a sudden, it’s great interaction, it kind of hurt a little bit by this interrupt coming in. Now, the girl’s kind of in her head, you don’t want her to be in her head. You want her to be emotionally having fun, right? You following me?


JAMIE: You want to get her back in this state you had her before that friend came over. Now, You can open with the friend, right? So, what you want to do is you want to get them out of their head, you want to get them having fun again. Now, Upgrade, you’re a successful guy. I don’t know your whole financial whatever, but we’re always going to put across that front that we are.


JAMIE: Buying a drink for someone that has shown themselves that they’re truly invested in you is always okay. You’re a professional working guy, you’re successful, whatever, they’ve shown their interest in you as a person, buying a drink for someone like that is a great thing to do. It just shows that you really are that guy. You don’t give a shit, you’re there to have fun, you following me?


JAMIE: There’s a big difference between buying a drink for someone in that scenario versus someone like right away, “Hey, what’s up? Can I buy you a drink?” Totally different, you get that right?


JAMIE: So, it’s your job to add some experience, get them out of their heads. At that point, oftentimes the girl comes over, it’s your job to elevate the emotional state. “Hey guys, let’s do a round of shots.” “Hey, guys, let’s grab a drink.” You following me?


JAMIE: That’s an artificial way to elevate their emotional state. Now, if that friend comes over and is said, “Oh, well, I can’t. I don’t want to drink. Blah, blah, blah,” Here’s your sound bite, you ready?


JAMIE: Write this down. So simple, you’ve heard this before. Remember, sound bites are not necessarily mind-blowing; it’s there just to do what it’s supposed to do. The friend goes, “Oh, I don’t want to have a drink.” “Oh, come on, live a little.”


JAMIE: Got it?


JAMIE: You’re basically kind of—if she doesn’t go for it, you’re kind of clowning her. You can now clown her, “Oh, come on.” And just kind of go, “Come on, live a little.” Just keep doing it, makes sense?


JAMIE: Once you get them to agree which you will because what you’re doing then is awesome, you then have won them over. You’ve essentially won over the friend, you’ve kind of owned the group to some degree and you’re back in charge again, makes sense?


JAMIE: Now, that you’ve overcome that. Now, you’re having a drink with them, you just bought yourself another five to ten minutes, makes sense?


JAMIE: You might not be able to make out. It’s Jason’s point, it might be very… it really might be kind of challenging to isolate because you don’t have a wing.


JAMIE: That’s okay. It’s good if you know the Kino that the kiss close and stuff like that, that’s awesome but sometimes in a situation like that, it might be a little challenging so you can’t actually do it, talk about it. Words are very powerful things. Remember, women are more emotional creatures, we’re very physical, we’re very visual, they’re more emotional. If you can get them talking about it, you can kind of get them turned on and you never know, you might get a text message later or, “Oh, my God, I wanted to kiss you so bad.” You might get stuff like that, so you can still talk about it even if you can’t do it, clear?


JAMIE: Don’t be surprised if she actually makes the move to try and isolate with you because you’re getting her so turned on by your words.


JAMIE: So, let’s review the routines we talked about here. If you never need to elevate things, buy a drink, dude, she’s spent half an hour with you, she’s clearly not there for the sake of your money or whatever.


JAMIE: Right? Buy a drink, Girl’s… the obstacle gives you a hard time, “Oh, come on, live a little.” It’s hard to go against that? Now, you’re buying them a drink, you just buy yourself five to ten minutes. You can’t escalate physically, okay, that’s fine, do it with your words, talk about it. Remember the great qualifier where you use the friend to qualify your friend for you. Hey, so what do you like about this girl? You have a lot of tools.


JAMIE: Is that helpful?

UPGRADE:  Yeah, yes it is.

JAMIE: Okay, good. That’s all I got.

UPGRADE:  Yeah, well, it’s good.

JAMIE: Okay, awesome. Who do we got next?

JASON: All right. We got David.

DAVID: Hi, guys! Okay, let me get my questions out.

JAMIE: Again, hit your very best one, specifically an interaction. One, an interaction that did not go well, that’s where we’re going to be able to help you the best.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: You really don’t want to do that to find your best question. That’s really what we want to focus on. If we have time we come back to the second but sometimes, we stay with the best one and if it’s an interaction like you saw just what Upgrade did, there’s a lot we can give you from that so it’s better you give us an interaction because then, we’ll hit on a lot of topics in one shot. It’s going to be much more practical for you, I promise you. Okay?

DAVID: Okay. This question actually pertains to many, many interactions, not necessarily a particular one.

JAMIE: Okay.

DAVID: One of the terms I’m a bit just confused on is, okay, earlier in the call you mentioned just one of our guys calling in that the opener was sort of more of a structured base that you just said this with this and later on comes the more art form of the pick-up if you will. My question is particularly, when is the proper time to neg and when is the proper time to show affection, and when she negs you, do I always neg back and when she shows affection to me, do I always show affection back or do I sometimes neg? How I read that? Is it really structured say like an opener where I always do… if she does X, I always do Y or is it more of me reading out each and particular situation and going from there. Does that make sense?

JASON: Yeah, so generally, I typically don’t really neg per se trying to… okay, the best way to put it, I typically if I need to neg in the beginning, I’ll do it because she acted out or she did something I didn’t like.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: Does that make sense?

DAVID: Yeah, definitely.

JASON: Now, as the interaction is progressing, I use a lot of push-pull kind of playful negs.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: Where it’s like, “Oh, my God, you like blah, blah, blah? I can’t even talk to you right now, we’re done.” Like, “Hey, you know what? We’re done. Give me back my CD’s,” or, “Was that our first fight?” You’d be surprised, it’s scary stuff sometimes because I have all these routines and that one for example, I had a girlfriend a couple of years ago and she remembered it after two or three years, and she would still be like, “Yeah, I remember that one time you said, was that our first fight?” But it’s really all those fun little playful negs that you’re throwing in there that’s going to create that whole push-pull, does that make sense for negging?

DAVID: Definitely, yeah.

JASON: Where at the beginning, it’s going to be more of like, “Oh, why are you even talking to us? Whoa, you guys take her out like this?” or, “You could dress her up but you can’t take her anywhere?” or like, “Is she always this much fun?” Does that make sense? The difference between the types of negs?

DAVID: Yeah, definitely.

JASON: Yeah, so one of them is—continue.

DAVID: I was going to say, it just sounds like there are ones that sort of hit closer to home but that’s kind of when she’s giving you a little… when she’s giving you a neg and then they’re the more playful ones that you just kind of taper throughout the interaction at the beginning.


DAVID: They’re just sort of nonchalant.

JASON: Yeah, in a sense they’re just for fun.

DAVID: Yeah.

JASON: Just little playful push and remember the whole concept, the whole seduction process, it’s always a push and pull, right? So, you’re going to give and then take back, give, take back. You could also look at it from a completely different—it’s actually a different mindset. It’s also a reward punishment system where let’s say she acts bad, you’re not going to reward that bad behavior so you’re going to throw in a neg to I guess, I don’t like the word punish but technically that makes sense.

DAVID: Yeah.

JASON: To show that you’re not happy with the way she’s acting basically, where if she now to transition where you’re saying if she acts a certain way should I reciprocate it positively? Well, then, that’s going to be let’s say, she says I like your watch or I like your shirt, or I like how you dress or something. “Oh, thank you. You know what? You dress great too.”

Or let’s say she’s touching you, those playful pushes sometimes I’ll be like, “Hey, what the hell are you doing? I’m going to kick your ass.” She’s like, “When?” “Blah, blah, blah,” and I’ll playfully grab her or pick her up or something and that’s me retuning, reciprocating that Kino that she was doing.

Now for you to give away your, I guess, your statement of interest to show that you are interested, too, I usually do that later on in the conversation, into the comfort phase. But I am sprinkling in a couple of qualifier compliments if that makes sense and by qualifier compliment I’m like, “You know what? It’s so cool that you’re into fitness, that’s a badass trait for a girl to have,” or something. You see how I showed my interest there but it was because of something that she’s worked for?

DAVID: Yeah.

JASON: Where later on in the night, I can… I’d literally be whispering in her ear, “You know what? You’re turning me on.” That’s also me showing my interest but that’s, it’s already wanted. We created that connection. It’s like if you see a random girl down the street and you start catcalling her, like yelling from across the street, do you really—what do you think she’s going to think?

DAVID: She’s going to put you at low value.

JASON: Yeah, now let’s say take those exact same words and you tell that to a girl that you have over at your place and you’re just whispering that in her ear?

DAVID: It will probably rise her emotional state.

JASON: Yeah, so then, that’s being able to differentiate when it’s wanted. That’s when you would give your, I guess, your statement of interest if you want to call it that.

DAVID: There’s a time and a place for everything, right?

JASON: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes like I was telling you, I’ll be at the bar or club telling her how hard she’s making me and it just depends on your timing and wording, and how you set the interaction to begin with. Anymore clarifications or questions on that? I feel like I’ve covered what you were asking.

DAVID: Me or Jamie, sorry.

JASON: Oh, you, and then Jamie’s going to go next.

DAVID: I was kind of once again a bit confused on, oh, shoot, what is it? The bait-hook-catch-release method. It’s like when I’m sort of brainstorming and tapping into my own creativity, sometimes I’ll think of something and I won’t really be quite sure if that’s a bait or if that’s a hook, or etc., etc., and I might experiment with it and I might fall flat on my face and I don’t know if it’s the material I used or the delivery and so it’s like this… I mean, my lack of knowledge and experience, I can’t really tap into my creativity or at least I second guess it.

JASON: Yeah.

DAVID: I guess I’m a bit confused on that method.

JASON: See for that, I would, well, first of all, bait-hook-release is, “Are you German?” “Nah.” “I love Germans, too bad you’re blonde.” So, you bait like, “Are you blah, blah, blah,” you hook them, “I love blah, blah, blah,” and then you release, “oh, too bad you’re blah, blah, blah.” It’s like you create intrigue and then push-pull. I mean, pull and then push.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: But know as far as making up your material and tapping into the creativity, that’s why you want to have routines at the beginning because—

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: Someone already who did tap into their creativity field went out there and created these things and field tested them where for you, all you have to do is come in and focus on one very role which is delivery.

DAVID: Mm-hm, okay. So, in the beginning which is where I am, I don’t really—if I had come up with an idea I can write down maybe but just kind of focus on the routines for now.

JASON: Yeah, focus on the routines—

DAVID: Right.

JASON: And if you say something that just hits and you’re like, “Man, this was a great line.” Write all of those down. That’s where a lot of my material comes from. It’s from those spontaneous nights where I’m just on fire.

DAVID: Sure. Yeah.

JASON: And I write those down and then, I go out and I test them. You got to make sure you test them. So, for me—

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: If I’m not getting 7 or 8 out of 10, it’s not a quality routine.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON: Jamie, do you want to give input on this or David, do you feel like I answered part of your…

DAVID: No, I feel like you answered it quite well. If Jamie has something to throw in the bag, then that’s fine, too. Thank you, Jason.

JASON: Okay, no problem.

JAMIE: Yeah, so, yeah, I’ll throw some things there. I’m pretty challenged to say to some degree what Jason said. The difference is I’m going to say it in my words, right? And what’s really great about that when you deal with  multiple coaches which we give you here on our VIP, is you have multiple perspectives and I’m sure Jason and I can both attest to you very well. I know I can for sure that I’ve worked with a lot of coaches within our organization, our little company. Oftentimes, there’s one coach particularly even though they said the same freaking thing, they said it in a way that just resonated, you following me? So, I’m going to say these same thing but perhaps, there might be something that I tell you that kind of clicks in a different way, okay? But same sh*t.

DAVID: Mm-hm.

JAMIE: So, I’ll give you some advice here, for someone who doesn’t remember, who hasn’t forgotten because I’ve been in this in decades at this point but it hasn’t been that long ago. I still remember very well what it’s like to be where you’re at right now, so here’s my advice to you. Focus on your routines, focus on the actual actions, do not get yourself all confused with concepts that might potentially be very confusing. For example, bait-hook-catch-release, it sounds simple but in some ways, it complicates it. I feel like just focus on the actions, focus on the routines and by action, you’ll start to understand.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: Just get your routines back together. Focus on routines stack, focus on getting good to reacting to her reactions, and then the concepts by action will start to make sense to you.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: You following me? So, don’t overcomplicate it. In the beginning, just know what your routines are, know what your opener is. Know that if she rejects that, how you can respond to that. Like your first question, your first part was actually perfect because that’s kind of focusing on really where I think you’re going to want to be. If she gives you an IOI, what do you do? Okay, cool, you give her an IOI back or she gives you an IOD, what do you do? Okay, cool, you give her an IOD back. If she gives you interest, you give her interest, if she gives you disinterest, you give her disinterest. That’s a very quick easy, how to react to her reaction. It doesn’t make it as complicated potentially concepts where it’s like, okay I don’t understand the full whatever, just go step by step. You do your opener, she’s going to either react positively or negatively. She reacts negatively, you give her something negative back. If she reacts positively, you give her something positive back. That simplifies it for you, makes sense?

DAVID: Makes perfect sense, yes.

JAMIE: Yeah, just keep it basic in the beginning. Just know what you’re going to do and know how you are going to react to her potential reactions. Don’t worry so much about these complicated concepts at this point.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: Because you will understand them later once you get good at the tit for tat.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: Okay?

DAVID: Okay. All right, got it.

JAMIE: It’s an application, not concepts. That’s why guys, that’s why you do boot camp. You do boot camp so you can get the practical down, so you can get a practical down and stop being a philosopher, okay? So, now, I’m just going to say the same thing that Jason said before, I’ll just give you a different way. Negs are a tool you use when she thinks she’s on a pedestal, you don’t use it for the sake of using it and neg is a tool you use when necessary. If she thinks she’s on a pedestal, you’re like for example, you open a girl up, right? Some girls will assume just by the fact you’re talking to them, you’re hitting on her. That’s kind of it is what it is. The reality is you’re opener might have been great. You might have shown no interest, you might not have talked about anything but she is by default because she thinks she’s on a pedestal going to assume you’re hitting on her. “Oh, that’s great. I have a boyfriend.” Okay, she is now throwing something at you like an objection. Now is when you neg her. “Oh, my God, really? You just met me and you’re already telling me your problems, huh?” You’re doing that, you’re showing her that neg as a tool because she gave you an objection, now you neg her. So, you only neg when it is appropriate. You neg as a tool when she thinks she’s on a pedestal where she has either verbally or non-verbally giving you something negative back. You don’t neg for the sake of negging. She’s friendly and affectionate and all these different wonderful things, don’t neg her.

DAVID: Okay. So just to clarify, Jamie, you only really neg when it’s necessary, when she kind of throws something at you?

JAMIE: Right, verbally or non-verbally.

DAVID: Right.

JAMIE: If she verbally throws something at you, that’s disinterest. Like, verbally said for example, I’ll just give an example, “Hey, what’s up?” “We have boyfriends.” That would be her reaction in a negative way to you. Now you neg her, “Oh, my God, really? You just met me and you’re already telling me your problems, huh?”

DAVID: Right.

JAMIE: You’re now negging her because she has shown you it’s appropriate.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: Get it?

DAVID: Do you also personally also throw those little push/pull negs in? Like those [Crosstalk 01:01:48] friendly that Jason was talking about?

JAMIE: Yeah, yeah, no, Jason said it perfectly. Think of negs as kind—all right, this is how the way I like to think about it. You have negs you use when necessary. The tool you use when necessary, I just gave an example. However push/pull is a dynamic you always keep in your interaction regardless.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: Even then, she’s so friendly and never necessarily shows you an IOD, you still need to be challenging. You’re like the Google of the dating world, everyone wants to work for you, get it?  You still got to be challenging even if she’s very friendly.

DAVID: All right, that makes sense so far.

JAMIE: I’ll give you a great… probably, in my opinion, the most amazing analogy to this. You ever watch, The Bachelor?

DAVID: Not really.

JAMIE: You should, you should. Even for reference alone. If you ever watch The Bachelor, what you notice is the guy never, almost never negs. He’s always polite, respectful, shows affection, shows IOI’s if you will, but yet, every girl in that show is vying for his attention. They’re a bunch of scavengers just trying to get his attention. Why is that? He’s not negging them. The idea that they all know that he’s this prize that everybody’s speaking after makes them want him.

He’s not making them though but that’s essentially a type of creating this… he’s creating it like you get a sense of, I’m Google, everyone wants to work for me, I’m The Bachelor, everyone wants to win.  So he creates the sense of I, the prize. You want to work for me, that’s what push-pull does. Push-pull is like creating this dynamic, “Hey, you’re going to have to try harder than that if you want me to kind of pencil you in for Saturday evening.”

DAVID: Some rock star in the tower, kind of.

JAMIE: You’re doing good. Yeah, and one of our founders also…write this down, one of our founders actually verbalizes really well, very eloquently. You ready to write this down?

DAVID: Yeah, I got it. I’m ready.

JAMIE: You want to keep her, it’s the philosophy, you want to keep her suspended between hope and doubt. That’s nothing to do with negs, that’s push pull, that’s “Does he like me? Does he not like me? I don’t know.” I’ll give you another example then, I’ll end on this one. “My God, you’re the coolest girl I’ve met… in the last five minutes.”

DAVID: What was that last part? What was that last thing you said?

JAMIE: I said, “Oh, my God, you are the coolest girl I’ve met in the last five minutes.”

DAVID: Yeah.

JAMIE: You never let her feel like she’s totally won you over. It’s always kind of a doubt to some degree. That’s the push-pull dynamic. That is kind of separate from negs. Negs are immediate tools you use to kind of put her in her place and take her off her pedestal. You might not ever need one but you always need to use push-pull.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE: You’re Google, everyone wants to work for you.

DAVID: Gotcha.

JAMIE: Now, you clear?

DAVID: Clear, crystal.

JAMIE: Beautiful, is there anyone else on the call?

JASON: Rush?

JAMIE: That hasn’t gone yet?

JASON: Rush? Rush? Is anyone else on that hasn’t been…

RUSH: Hello, can you hear me?

JASON: Yeah, is this Rush?

RUSH: Yeah.

JASON: Okay. Hey, Rush.

RUSH: So, I just started about a week back and talked with Jamie and I did three approaches and the one approach really went well but that kind of put me off a little bit, so before going to Starbucks, I met with a girl and we sat down and talked for a while, and then, we exchanged numbers, then I called her later, she initially told me that I’m with my brother, call me later, but later when I tried to call, she was not picking up. So, I don’t know really what went wrong and how I should approach this better.

JASON: Okay, picked her up at Starbucks, got her number, called her, she picked up, she was with her brother; you called her the same day?

RUSH: No, next day.

JASON: Oh, okay, and did you guys agree to hang out or do anything before, prior to you calling her?

RUSH: Yeah, I mean, I told her give me a number, we can hang out sometime. She said, “Yeah, of course.” She and I, she had common music preference so we talked about going to some music venue and something but I don’t know what went wrong.

JASON: He called her, she’s with her brother. I mean, honestly I would just kind of keep this one going as a backburner phone number if that makes sense.

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: Where I mean, even Jamie and I, we go out and let’s say we have ten people that we’re talking to. Maybe five or six of them will be really invested where they want to hang out, they want to see us another time, they want to keep going out. Where maybe the other five or six and I don’t know, for me personally, I’ll have let’s say a couple five or six or whatever, and then, I’d have another five or six that are just kind of there where it’s open and it can go somewhere but it’s going really slow where there’s not that huge level of interest from both of us trying to close this, or trying to hook up, or trying to meet up. And then, I have another group of numbers where it’s just kind of like, okay, I can talk to them and text them but it’s probably not going to go anywhere, does that make sense?

RUSH: Yeah.

JASON: So, it’s, first of it is—I guess what I’m trying to go over right now is to not take one set so personal because again—

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: I have this big group of just random girls I can just text like, “Hey, how you doing,” or, “How you been? Blah, blah, blah.” I’m probably not going to hang out with them, they’re probably not invested enough, and then I have this other group where they’re more into it and then I have another group that it’s actively the ones that I’m going out with constantly. So, if you take that mindset, that abundance mindset, the fact that she didn’t answer, you kind of throw it into one of the backburner ones and I still keep throwing little funny names, little like, “Hey, you know what? I saw this thing and it reminded me of you.” Like, “Oh, I bet you would wear this dress,” or “Oh, I bet you would be walking your dog like that.” Something that’s going to like a little playful, fun conversation starter. Does that make sense how you would kind of keep this one going?

ROJ: Yeah, makes sense.

JASON: Now, the fact that she gave you her number and then she answered the next day, and then when did you call her after that?

ROJ: Two days after when this happened.

JASON: Two days after? Okay. Yeah, the way I see it, I would just kind of text or do you have like Snapchat or social media?

ROJ: No, I don’t have her details.

JASON: Oh, because see, for me a lot of the times, I’ll get her number and it won’t hook right away where she won’t be reciprocating my text messages.  But then, I’d add her on Snapchat and that way, I’m able to send her a video message or Jamie has brought up, if you have the iPhone, you can send the voice messages.

RUSH: Oh, okay. Makes sense.

JASON: So, those create a more personal I guess, connection or it’s just more personal in general and for me, I found that that’s made a huge difference.

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: Yeah, but for you, I mean, I’d have to probably maybe, yeah, I just can’t think of how, where the slip up was, right? Where I see it happening was maybe the set that didn’t hook as much and she could’ve… because I mean, like this happened. I was on a date Thursday and this guy just kept calling the girl over and over again, and she was like, “Yeah, this guy is so annoying, I was being nice, gave him my number,” and then I just ignore him and he just won’t stop calling and texting.

RUSH: Yeah, so that situation, where I should draw the boundary from being too desperate or just to completely neglect her? I mean, that thing. Because if you stop calling her, you might be like, “Okay, I should’ve pushed more.”

JASON: Mm-hm.

RUSH: Or if you push too much then I’d be saying, you might appear desperate so where is the fine line between these two?

JASON: Well, the fine line is that original point I was trying to make about how you have your group of girls that are your close ones that you’re hooking up with, dating, whatever, and then you have those that are kind of potential, and then you have those that you can talk to them but they won’t answer, and then of course, there’s that bigger pile where it’s all the ones that you just kind of got their number and it didn’t go anywhere, you know what I mean?

RUSH: Okay. Uh-huh.

JASON: So, once you start building that abundance mentality and just having that actual abundance, then, you’ll know, “Okay, I really don’t even have time to be pursuing this girl.” Does that make sense?

RUSH: Yeah, makes sense.

JASON: Like if you had 20 girls that you had to communicate with, do you think that you’d be putting that much effort into this one girl?


JASON: So, even if I had zero girls, I would still treat that one girl like if I had a hundred girls because that’s going to give you the abundance mentality.

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: Does that make sense?

RUSH: Yep, makes sense.

JASON: Yeah, so then, when you call that line, first is keeping in mind like, well what if I had 20 chicks that I had to deal with? I would maybe text her like, “I like how you did it.” You called her the next day, she didn’t pick up. Two days later you called her again, or she picked up, two days later you called her again, does she text you in between?


JASON: No? Then, yeah, that might just be one of those not push too hard but I keep pushing for about a week or two and then maybe randomly, I’ll see something that’ll remind me of that girl, and then I’ll send her a random text message. And again, I added them on Snapchat so I’m posting interesting material there all day and I’m mass distributing it to everyone that I’m talking to at the same time. For me, it’s like a huge just saves my time and you have them there so I have girls on my Snapchat that I’ve met years ago that are still randomly message me up when I post something.

RUSH: Okay, okay.

JASON: So, yeah, I mean, in your case would be almost just shooting a couple more, maybe a text message or two, maybe another call, and I can get really in depth on how to architect and map out what you’re trying to do but I think in this case, it would just kind of maybe shoot like a funny meme or something that’s… you’re trying to get some kind of reaction of it to see if she’s still invested. Maybe try to get her on the phone again, maybe send one of those voice messages, does that make sense?

ROJ: Yes. Between text message and phone call, which one is better?

JASON: It depends. Personally, I’ve found a lot of girls are kind of scared or shy to pick up their phone at the beginning so I get a lot of girls that’ll ignore it and then, they just text me like, “Oh, hey I was at work, how you doing?” and try to keep the conversation on text. I have other girls that will not answer a text message at all but when I get them on the phone, they’re just on it, they’re just talking, talking, talking, talking. So, a lot of it, it depends on the girl.

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: Personally, I like to send a text message as soon as I get the number. Then, when I have time, it really… when you have the abundance mentality, it really comes down to when you have time to send a message and try to keep it the same day or the next day or something, and then, I’ll be texting them and if I feel like we’re just going back and forth in a conversation, I’ll be like, “Hey, call me.”

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: So, that’s my typical approach. I keep the text. It’s almost like throwing little pebbles, just fun flirting and then a phone call maybe randomly once a week or something, depends how you’re handling the girl and what stage you’re at.

RUSH: Okay.

JASON: Jamie?

JAMIE: Yeah, so RUSH, curious, what is your boot camp date?

RUSH: I just joined this VIP call. We have not decided yet.

JAMIE: Yeah, you decide, okay, that’s right, got you. So, let’s see here. A few things here. Jason mentioned voice text, voice texts are amazing, dude. You send them…but now, the thing is they have to have an iPhone to use it or you can use WhatsApp, for the voice text, a voice text is oftentimes what I will do before doing any call because the idea is they can play it whenever they’re ready at their disposal. You’re not asking for anything, you’re just giving value. You could say, “Hey, happy Monday! Blah, blah, blah.” And you have some kind of fun little thing you talk about for 20 seconds, not bad, but they hear your voice. That makes you a lot more real versus some kind of just text message.

So, I really like those a lot for that purpose. It really keeps the interaction very lively. Again, Jason already mentioned that. So, here’s the important thing. When you get these phone numbers, you really want to make it and Jason talked about this too, you really want to make it about an event. The phone number needs to be an accounting detail. “Hey, I’m into blah, blah, blah.” “Oh, my God, I am too.” “Great, let’s do that.” “Hey, Wednesday, there’s this event or this thing we should do.” “Awesome, well I guess I need your phone number.” You following me? You make the phone number an accounting detail that you need the phone number because you both agreed to do something together, makes sense? Again, Jason already said this.

RUSH: Okay.

JAMIE: Right? So, when you’re calling her, you shouldn’t be calling her to say hi, or voice messaging her to say hi, it’s like, “Hey, so what’s up? Happy Monday. Oh my God, so hey, Wednesday, I’m thinking 7:00 o’clock.” So, you make it about… my point is make your communications purposeful, not about just shooting a sh*t, get it?

ROJ: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

JAMIE: So now, you’ve already talked about something. You’re touching base because you’re a busy guy and you want to see blah, blah, blah. You want to see about kind of ironing out the details, making sure 7:00 o’clock on Wednesday still works or whatever it happened to be. Now, you’re the purposeful guy who’s not wasting her time. You’re going a certain direction and women like that. Okay?

ROJ: Okay. Mm-hm, so you are telling, let’s say I see some cool event going on, I can take turn and ask like, “Okay, I’m going there. If you want to join, let me know?” Something like that?

JASON: Mm-hm.

JAMIE: Yeah, but something more kind of like this. Hey, we’re going over to whatever, 7:00 o’clock tomorrow, you down? But you’re doing it anyway, that’s the main point. The main point is you’re doing it anyway, you’re welcome to come but if you don’t that’s fine, because I’m doing it anyway.

RUSH: Okay, cool.

JAMIE: By the way, that also ties to one of your other questions. One of your other questions was, at what point pushing versus desperation, how do I know the fine line? This is— I’m kind of repeating the same stuff Jason said, I’m just saying it in a different way, maybe what I’m saying kind of clicks or Jason’s more clicks, I don’t know. We’re just trying to give you as many ways to understand the thing clearer.

RUSH: Sure, sure.

JAMIE: Pushing versus desperation, the further away I do the first time, I like group stuff, man, but if I do go for a one-on-one which I will absolutely do sometimes if she… if it doesn’t convert for some reason, I will never go for a one-on-one ever again. From that point onwards, I’m always making it about a group thing. “Hey, my friends are doing blah, blah, blah. Come join. Bring a friend.” I might even say that. So she can turn me down in theory a thousand times but because I’m offering as part of a group, I might even say bring a friend. It doesn’t seem like anything. It just seems like I’m being sociable. So you never lose value then. She says no, great, I’m doing it anyway, you understand?

RUSH: Okay. You’re telling me if she [01:19:44] one on one.

JAMIE: I give her one shot on one-on-one, after that, I never give her a one-on-one opportunity until she shows up.

RUSH: Right.

JAMIE: At that point, I go to group stuff and I invite you into stuff I’m doing anyway so it never appears like I’m going out of my way for her.

RUSH: Uh-huh.

JAMIE: I’ve had several women, what I’ll do is every week, I’ll have a happy hour day or something, right? On happy hour day, happy hour day is already solidified with people that are my social circle. I know for sure I’m doing it and then, I will send a group message to 10 women, “Hey, we’re going here. Come join, bring your friends.” Maybe one or two will actually show up. You following me?

RUSH: Okay. Make sense. Uh-huh.

JAMIE: So, but it doesn’t matter. I just keep the other ones in the mix and oftentimes, that seven or eight that don’t show up will show up another time. They get the hang of it that I’m just living my life. If you want to join, you can join but I don’t get put off by the fact that they don’t show up on one of them. I have many that don’t show up for three times, the fourth time, they show up. Because again, I’m just inviting to sociable things, things that actually sound pretty cool to do.

RUSH: Okay, makes sense.

JAMIE: So I don’t let—

RUSH: Can you give me an example of this group event like hanging out in a bar, going to a music event, those kinds of stuff or any other idea?

JAMIE: It doesn’t have to be—how about if I put it this way, it doesn’t have to be some mind-blowing spectacular event, just a cool place with a good atmosphere. “Hey, we’re going to this place,” and in that local area, people know it’s a cool place to go. It has good atmosphere, good people watching, and going here, I might not make it about so much the place I’m going to but the fact I have some really cool people with. “Hey, I’m going here with so, and so, oh my God, this person’s amazing, you’re going to want to meet her. She’s also into blah, blah, blah. Come join.” Oftentimes, I’ll make the [01:21:28] about the people I’m with. You’ll want to meet this person.

RUSH: Okay, makes sense, yeah.

JAMIE: But the truth and matter is in our lives, you don’t always have a yatch cruise to invite people to, that’s okay. The thing that I have to offer oftentimes is the people I’m with.

RUSH: Okay, makes sense, yeah.

JAMIE: So, that’s that. Jason will say it on another really important thing. Jason likes Snapchat personally, I’m not into Snapchat but the same principle. I like Facebook. I never, I always try and get their Facebook too, because if doesn’t work out or if I’m travelling, whatever, I always have a zillion opportunities to engage and I’m always seeing their updates once a week, whatever, I’ll see the update on [01:22:18] I’ll like it, I might comment, and that’s my opportunity to re-engage them in a way that’s very nonchalant. I never just get the phone number. I would get Facebook, I can always revisit that. Many times, the number doesn’t work out for us and then something happens via Facebook, six months later, I got my shot.

RUSH: Let’s see… Okay. So do you think—

JAMIE: You know I find it very nonchalant I’ll get the phone number, “Hey, you on Facebook? Awesome. Here, here’s my info, add me,” boom, done. Now I got two ways to kind of hit but Jason, again, Jason likes Snapchat, if you like Snapchat, go for that. I like the things mixed up, whatever, that’s just my thing, doesn’t matter. What’s important is you get some type of social media burst.

RUSH: So, do you think at this point I should invite her on Facebook?

JAMIE: No, just kind of leave it alone. Just make it be a lesson.

RUSH: Okay.

JAMIE: Start being an abundant guy like Jason was saying. You know what? There’s a million people you’re going to meet, okay lesson learned. So, in the future, do that. At this point, kind of let it be to some degree but in the future, it’s a learning lesson, get the social media, too.

RUSH: Got you, okay.

JASON: Just to add to that, I had an idea or a concept to keep in mind. If she’s not putting in what you’re putting in as far, let’s say you send her a message, she replies. Because a lot of it, I base it, I only put in as much as she puts in. So, if I’m not getting her to reciprocate to my messages and my calls, I’m not going to extend an invitation to go out with me, does that make sense Rush?

RUSH: Okay. Uh-huh.

JASON: So, I don’t want to just throw in a date out of nowhere like, “Hey, blah, blah, blah.” It has to be that she earned it in a way but also, with that one, have you heard of memes?

ROJ: Yeah, yeah. Memes, yeah.

JASON: So I use those a lot and I text message, I send those through text message because someone already did the humor for me and now so if she tells me she’s like a nurse or a lawyer, or a doctor, whatever the girl is, I’ll look up doctor meme or college student meme or something and something that relates to her world and I message her that. I’ll send maybe one or two and I’m like, “Oh my god, dude, this totally reminded me of you,” and as I send that, to me that’s like me putting in effort and if she doesn’t reply with at least an LOL or oh, my god, that’s totally me, or that’s so true, or something along those lines, some kind of response?

RUSH: Uh-huh?

JASON: I start pushing away too, pulling away too, so really…

Thank you for checking out today’s podcast. You can learn more about us at the Also, please make sure to most a review of today’s call on iTunes. Once again.

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