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TAY 191: Presenting your best self

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Today’s podcast we discussed how get your mindset ready to go out and present your best self. We also discussed the importance of using direct vs indirect openers. Also, we cover how own your environment and isolate from that.

JASON: So it’s recording now.

JAMIE:          All right. Awesome. Welcome everyone. I want to give a little bit of—normally we just kind of jump into it and we start doing a bunch of questions and discussions, but today it’s kind of a deep celebration for us in a way. Our company is taking a little bit of a new more all-encompassing direction. If you guys have already noticed the website is now,, which is much more the direction of—all of you guys who have spoken to us in the past, you know we’re a full personality development company.

We got famous for the dating sciences but our future is much more of a scalable solution, right? So, for our future calls I want you guys thinking in terms of like this type of model because this is really come in sequence. The first most important thing you got to look at your life, right. Who is the most important relationship in your life? It is with you! If your relationship with yourself isn’t good, you don’t feel good about who you are, you’re going to have a very hard time attracting the kind of people you want in your life. So it’s always going to start there, right? All these different tools to communicate really isn’t going to do a lot for you if you don’t believe in yourself, if you don’t love yourself and believe that somebody would benefit from an experience with you.

So the first thing you always going to want to look at and this is how we’re going to come across here in our conversation is are you taking care of yourself? Are you doing good things for you? Do you feel good about who you are? Are you working out? Do you go to the gym? Do you dress nice clothes? Those kinds of things, right? There’s a lot of methodologies we can talk about and we do talk about for example like the whole getting into the state process, getting yourself in a state where you feel good about your way to present yourself to others. Once you have that, the second part of our model, with The Attractive You, is okay, I feel good about myself, but how are my communication skills? How am I able to verbalize that to other people so that they would want to align with me? It’s not just in dating, it’s in everything.

I mean it’s in making friends, it’s in making business associates. It’s always a value proposition. And the better you are able to verbalize that, the more likely you are to attract the kind of people you want in your life. Now of course that’s going to be the bulk of our call here, but you’re going to have a lot of people who are going to come on these calls and then going to talk about the third P’s which is okay, I feel great about myself, I feel attractive, I feel like people should want to align with me, okay awesome. Now I’m able to verbalize that, I’m able to show people why they want to do that. And now I’m attracting the kind of people I want in my life, fantastic!

Final P’s is once you have what you’re looking for, you have the kind of people in your life you want, its about maintaining it and growing those relationships so that’s, there are a lot of techniques and strategies in themselves. So really the reason why I wanted to do on this little bit of an intro here is really to let you guys know in a very clear way what the direction of our company is. Its really an all encompassing personal development tool where sure, these calls specifically will focus on our communication tools specific to dating sciences, but I want to reaffirm what the bigger picture is. It’s really about making yourself feel good about who you are, being able to verbalize that to others so they’d want to align with you and to give yourself the best life. So that’s it. You guys have any questions about that we can take that off line, but that’s our new direction moving forward, so again, that would be where we’ll start having a lot of these tools and various discussion groups, okay? That’s it.

JASON:         All right, guys. So, Mike, you’re up.

MIKE:             Yeah, can I probably spit after a few guys? I want to let them ask question first.

JASON:         Sure. David?

DAVID: Yeah. Okay, this is my first phone call of this sort, I didn’t really know what to expect so I just kind of wrote down a bunch of little questions, is that fine?

JAMIE:          Yeah.

DAVID: Is that basically the phone number, right?

JAMIE:          Yeah.

DAVID: Okay. Why—oh, before I go into these question, I know that you guys are working on the website and I talked to you last week, Jamie, and you kind of gave myself a new username and a password, and I’m still actually kind of in trouble with set, username, and password. It works before but [Crosstalk 00:05:16] website.

JAMIE:          Let’s get on point. Yeah, you may email me that. Let’s go to that later. Just email me—

DAVID: Okay. Yeah.

JAMIE:          And we’ll work that through.

DAVID:  Okay. Yeah. We’ll get to that. Anyways, one of the areas I’ve been having trouble with, and I know I can do it because I’ve done it before many times, is yeah, you talked about it in a book and I believe its called, The Absurd, basically where—it’s my take out is it’s basically improve, more or less. Where you definitely run out of things to say, talk about, things like that, and you just take it to the next level by just saying something really silly or off the cup. They didn’t have to relate to anything but it’s taken off as funny. And I guess one of my questions is how do you sharpen those skills and become like get into that state where you’re not creating things more clearly I guess. Does that make sense?

JASON:         Mm-hm. Okay. So basically you’re trying to figure out how to be more funny on the spot? Yeah or…

DAVID: Yeah, but I mean, I’ve done it before of course, many, many times so it’s like I know I can do it. But sometimes I just kind of like, oh, shoot, sort of I feel like I’m in a rock and a hard place and sort of deer in the headlights, you know?

JASON:         Yeah, now.

DAVID: But, yeah.

JASON:         I personally think the first step is to have routines in place. So that you can actually—

DAVID: Know what?

JASON:         Those as almost like fillers, you know, if you’re running out of material and you can’t think of something on the spot, if you have a routine you can deliver that.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON:         So that would be the first step. What were you going to say?

DAVID: No, go ahead.

JASON:         I was going to—okay, so basically if you have the routine set you understand like the language that’s going to be perceived as humorous. So that’s why we constantly stress how these routines are more of like training wheels because you understand what’s funny so when you kind of free flow or go on your own you have the general guideline in your head of what is perceived and not perceived that’s funny to the group that you’re talking to. Now, if you’re really trying to focus on just  enhancing that free thinking, I guess improve kind of skills that you called it, then some exercise I’ve seen, it’s from this book called, Comedy Writing Secrets.

DAVID:           Yep.

JASON:         Where one of the concepts that it talks about is look at a regular everyday object and think of like five potential humorous things. It could be something as simple as a pen, or whatever is around you and you think of five funny things that would be associated with that pencil or pen, whatever.

DAVID: Okay.

JASON:         So like let’s say you—

DAVID: That makes sense.

JASON:         So it’s like a pen, you know what? I’m going to use this pen to write you the most tear jerking love letter in the world. Hahaha… she’s going to laugh. You know what? I don’t even like to go approaching girls anymore, I just grab this pen and I toss it and whoever I hit I go apologize and I start a conversation. You know how—

DAVID: All right.

JASON:         Make up these two little stories on the spot about a pen so the more—

DAVID: Yeah.

JASON:         The more you are able to do that—you could be seeing there waiting for a meeting or driving—and pick objects in your everyday life and think of five funny things that you can make a joke about basically or five observations and that starts getting your brain. In a sense, you start rewiring your brain to be able to look at that in everyday life. So when you are in an interaction and you are feeling kind of frozen, maybe you can throw in a routine stack, get them laughing, and then just pick off of that and then go into a couple of two or three more funny things based off of the current situation now that you have that skills that are more developed.

DAVID: Okay. It makes a lot of sense, actually. Okay, but it’s my understanding the routines are good but you don’t want to get too comfortable or something, is that correct? Am I correct in saying that? Or…

JASON:         I would say you don’t want to rely on them completely where that’s all you have.

DAVID: Yeah.

JASON:         But honestly, at the beginning it is all you have sometimes because I’ve met tons of people that as soon as they stay off the routines all their interactions just fall apart because they don’t have that—

DAVID: Okay.

JASON:         Developed sense of what’s actually going to be perceived as funny or not.

DAVID:           Okay. So in the end of day such is where I am at right now.

JASON:         That’s when it’s the most critical to actually have a game plan in place where it’s—

DAVID:           Okay.

JASON:         Say this, follow up with this, follow up with this; that’s going to get you use to seeing some successes that’s going to get comfortable in being in situations where you might not be as comfortable because you’re not used to approaching all the time.

DAVID:           Okay. It makes sense.

JASON:         And then as far as getting your mental state in place or being, having that focus that you’re talking about, well a big part of it is how you primed yourself to even go out. Like if you’re… had a really bad day and you are stressed out and you’re tense and you go out and you bring that same energy, it’s just going to basically be downhill from there. You know what I mean? So it’s about finding a way to really cut your day off in a sense and be like, okay, I’m going to go out now and I want to come in with this mindset. I want to feel free, I want to feel clear-headed so then from there there’s different exercises you can do. I personally like a quick 15-30 minute meditation or whatever, to kind of just—

DAVID: Yeah. I meditate twice a day. Around 20 minutes each session.

JASON:         Well, then that’s perfect. That’s a way where you can come in and bring that into your, right before going out mixed with having all those, that the routine’s in place and having that these mental exercises that you’ve been doing, that should give you the fluidity to be able to joke around and have fun in the moment.

DAVID: Okay. All right, good.

JASON:         And you got to remember, too, this is like a—it’s not something that you can do at once; it’s like a muscle in a sense. You have to be constantly working at it, constantly enforcing it, constantly strengthening the neurons in your brain  to be able to think and act like that to eventually you become that.

DAVID: I understand. Okay, gotcha. That makes sense. Okay. And I have a few more questions. Say when—if someone else needs a turn just say it? I don’t know how much time I got.

JAMIE:          We do one question a person if we have time we come back.

DAVID: Oh, okay. Yeah, perfect.

JAMIE:          Yes.

DAVID:           That’s cool.

JAMIE:          And also this gives me a chance for me to give you some feedback, too, so you get more from your specific question. Okay?

DAVID: Oh, perfect. Okay, great.

JAMIE:          Once you and Jason are done speaking, yeah, that’s how it normally goes, it’s kind of one on one.

JASON:         Yeah.

DAVID: That works. That works fine.

JASON:         You want to give your input, Jamie?

JAMIE:          Yeah, absolutely. Did you have—when you talked about a deer in the headlights kind of thing, David, did you have a specific situation where you’re like, oooh, I kind of get caught there, did you have something happened on the roadside…

DAVID: I did. I did.

JAMIE:          Can you give me the specific details there, what happened? Because that might give me the opportunity to give you some other ideas.

DAVID: Sure. Okay. I was actually down at Costa Rica at that time.

JAMIE:          All right.

DAVID: I was at a festival and I meet this girl on the beach or whatever and just was like I don’t know, just yelling about whatever. I don’t really know. I was a bit drunk honestly, at that time, I was. I don’t even know how I opened, honestly. It was just kind of like I pointed at something and said something, she looked over and then it just kind of started going, but anyways, I was talking to whatnot and actually it was going really well and I was doing pretty much, well, I felt that I was being funny to whatnot, she’s laughing whatnot, so then we went off to like a jungle whatever was talking and chatting or whatever, eventually we got to a point where we’re like holding hands and kind of like telling a little bit. I didn’t kiss her or anything but then I basically it came to a point where I sort of ran out of things to say and it was like this energy came and it just felt so really awkward and so eventually it sort of just fizzled out, and I sort of crashed and burned.

JAMIE:          Okay. I gotcha. It’s good you said that because what you asked for will be helpful. I think Jason actually hit it really well. Jason was kind of eluded that what you really need is more routines and some techniques, too, to keep the conversation flowing because when you first came on to with a question, you’re like oh, I want to do more taking things to the absurd. Really, Jason hit it very well, really what you wanted to have the ability to have more routines, more things to say, right?

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE:          That so you’re—

DAVID: I just found out about two chapters into the book so I’ve used what I learned.

JAMIE:          Dude that’s okay and that’s fine. These calls—

DAVID: Right.

JAMIE:          Are really all about—look, we’re all students and learning. This is all about realizing, getting a certain level of awareness of what each of us here on the call here, individually, what our next step is. So, okay! Your next step is past the next two chapters, then learn some more information to get some more routines. That’s fine, we’ve all been there.

DAVID: Right.

JAMIE:          At least you’re clear now that the reality is if you think that it is more material that you can kind of bring out to the forefront when necessary.  I’ll just give you one other thing; it just builds on what Jason said. For example in the community, if you want to call that, they talk a lot about opinion openers, right? The way I actually use opinion openers is not to open really, up for the most part. We could all talk about that why another time but the one place I do like opinion openers a lot is when the conversation kind of dies down and it’s like the energy is not quite there anymore.

I will then sometimes if I need to reinvigorate it, then I might use an opinion opener, I might say, “Hey, let me get your opinion on this,” then I’ll bring up some crazy drama laden scenario really just to reinvigorate the conversation, so to have these opinion openers that I might use if there’s ever a low in my conversation. So in the scenario you are at, where you could feel the energy start to die?

I might then say, “Oh my god, let me get your opinion on this,” and then bring up something that just reinvigorates the conversation. Does that make sense?

DAVID: Yeah.

JAMIE:          But I have these things already ready to rock and roll that’s the whole idea of this routine stack or these routines that we use. We have this, the idea is you collect this archive of routines you can use when necessary. That’s the first thing that you can do that’s very quick. The second thing that you’re going to want to do and this is going to require you to develop more of a skill. Erik, the founder of Venusian Arts, he really talked a lot about the idea of multithreading. Multithreading, a lot of that it really is the skills and awareness. It’s actually like paying attention.

For example, as I am speaking to you, we do these calls all the time so I’m not nervous if I’m talking to you or doing one of these calls, I’m prepared for it because I’ve done this gazillion of times. Just like when we’re trying to get you prepared for your dating scenarios. So the good news is when you’re prepared and you have your routines, it allows you to listen and when you listen to keywords, every key word that she brings up is a potential to bring up a new conversation. For example, even listening to you, you mentioned you meditate twice a day for twenty minutes a day, right?

To me that sounds like, I don’t know, do you do like are you specifically into transcendental meditation, is that the one you do?

DAVID: Yeah.

JAMIE:          Yeah, I figured that. I mean, so now if you were her, right, I would say, “Oh so you meditate, huh? How did you get into that?” See by listening to you I have an awareness that anything you bring up in the conversation is a potential for a brand new topic. So what that requires you to do is start getting good at listening. Listen to key words because any key word that’s brought to the conversation is a brand new thing. Make sense?

DAVID: Yeah.

JAMIE:          And you’ll get more comfortable doing that when you get your routines down because when you got your routines down, the more you can just lay back and listen because you already know your stories.

DAVID:           Yeah.

JAMIE:          You can almost go on auto pilot as you kind of reflect on everything she has brought up already. So the second thing—

DAVID: I see.

JAMIE:          I think that you’ll need more time it’s more of a skill, but that is really what makes this sustainable long term where you can talk to someone forever because the better you become at becoming a listener the more you’re aware of all these wonderful topics you can bring up. That’s why it’s kind of a shame. Anyone that doesn’t do what we’re doing here they think this is some kind of gimmick, it’s not. It’s a sales skill and by having these routines you can use to talk to people you are being given a gift that very few people have.

You don’t have to be concerned about what you’re going to say next, you actually know all the things you could potentially say and you can actually just sit back and listen. And see what other topics you can bring up organically based on what she brought up. Does that make sense?

DAVID:  I think having those makes you feel more will make you feel more relax as well.

JAMIE:          Abso-f***ing-lutely! So—

DAVID: What was that word that you used? Multi what?

JAMIE:          The term is multithreading.

DAVID: Threading? Oh, okay.

JAMIE:          Multithreading. But then the strategy behind that is you’re listening to the conversation, and any key word that she brings up or even you bring up too, at any point and say, “Oh my god, hey, I just thought of something,” “hey, going back to the meditation, I just signed up for blah, blah, blah,” or “I was thinking about taking this program,” the idea is you can resume any topic later. You can always go back to it, “Oh, hey, speaking of meditation, blah, blah, blah.” Make sense?

DAVID: Yeah, absolutely.

JAMIE:          I want to give you one last thing and anyone listening here this is a phenomenal tool if you guys don’t use this. Do you know—and this relates to your question David, do you know the question game?

DAVID: It’s electronic questions, is that what you mean?

JAMIE:          It could be, depends on you, but this will allow you if you ever get stuck again this is incredibly, wonderfully, awesome, easy routine that will allow you never, ever to run out of stuff again. Next time you’re in that scenario, say, “Hey, do you know the question game? Awesome! Here’s the deal.” I’m just going to tell you in the way I say it, I’ve heard other iterations of it, but the basic way I presented it is, so the question is very simple, I ask a question, then you ask a question. You cannot repeat a question. And last rule, no boring questions. So basically what you’re telling her is you’re going to get out of the normal small talk that most people use and you’re going to actually force each other to talk about real things.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE:          Also the great thing is you’re setting the frame that anything can be brought up with. If you say, hey, let’s play the question game, here’s the rules. Each of us takes a turn asking question and you can’t refuse a question, and oh, lastly no boring questions. Some people like to do the one where they go you go first? I don’t like that because her questions most likely are going to be boring or she’s not going to be ready. I am ready so I am going to more likely set the tone and make it a good question. Make sense?


JAMIE:          So I’m actually—a lot of people like to do, oh you go first. I like to go first personally. So I make my question a good question, I set the tone for how things are going to go, and what’s cool is you’re basically telling her we’re going to speed date and so now you’ve introduced this frame that  it doesn’t have to make sense anymore. You can bring up any question out of nowhere. Hey, so what’s your favorite position, top or bottom? Whatever. It doesn’t have to flow anymore.

DAVID: Right.

JAMIE:          And now she’s just laughing, you can just talk forever. But again you want to come back to that initial skill I told you. Get really start to focus on the ability to multithread.

DAVID: Okay.

JAMIE:          Start getting your routines down so good that you can actually sit and really listen. Now eventually, I’m just going to throw us out there, just so you know, David, you really want to get your routines really good where you can deliver them in the way they need to be done, you will need to do a boot camp at a certain point. If this is something you are serious about and the reason for that is because you want to be able to engage people where they are really enjoying you, right? The promise, I know you’re going through a lot of the virtual content right now which is great but ultimately there’s no feedback mechanism there.

DAVID:           Yeah.

JAMIE:          If you really want to know how you are being portrayed to the world, you can’t really, those were never going to tell you what. Only you will. Eventually you are going to want to go down that path because you want to know your routines so well, you’re going to want to know that you can engage people so well, you can go on auto-pilot, and really immerse yourself in the conversation itself. Does that make sense?

DAVID: Yes. And there’s another question, I’ll email you about. I had a few questions up about the boot camp.

JAMIE:          Okay, email me that question.

DAVID: Thank you so much.

JAMIE:          Yeah, you’re welcome.

JASON:         Cool. Randy.

RANDY: Hey guys, how are you doing?

JASON:         We’re doing great. How about you?

RANDY: I’m doing well. So actually this is my first phone call as well. I spoke with Jamie earlier this week. And he gave me a direct opener approach. And last night I went out with a buddy and I did my first approach. I didn’t use the one Jamie gave me as a direct opener, I actually used more indirect and I opened a two set with a jealous girlfriend opener and then sort of mixed it with Jamie’s which was, you kind of have like an East Coast vibe and then DHV’s on top of that and I opened the two set rather well.

Two things, one of the things I’m sort of struggling with is I understand the theory really well, but after I open when I’m in the set when I’m communicating I’m almost get to a point where I’m like over analyzing and like wondering what position I’m at, am I a two, a three, so on so forth; or do the spaces next together because sometimes it feels like there’s comfort. A lot of comfort questions going on and then it kind of bounces back and then also on top of that, this actually relates to David’s question, which is as far as keeping that conversation exciting and keeping them engaged, you guys said to basically have a bunch of material at hand so how much material would you guys recommend? Would you recommend 10 DHV’s, memorize 10 negs, you know what I mean?

JASON:         Okay, well the first part it’s like figuring out where you are in the model, right?

RANDY: Yeah.

JASON:         Simplified version of that in, if you’re watching the videos, it’s once you open, the opening is just to get their attention and then after that it’s to start building the attraction or make it known that you’re an interesting person where they want your company. So then that’s the second part. The A phase, the Attraction Phase. From there you want to transition to qualification. I do these very early in the interaction where okay, I came in and I presented all these values, made you laugh all that stuff. Now, what do you have going on, and don’t say looks. That’s an example of you qualifying them just to make sure it’s almost making it known that I’m an interesting person, now how are you interesting? Why should I keep talking to you? Does that make sense so far?

RANDY: Yeah, well, let me… so, in the conversation, it kicked off with her pretty much holding the frame and like asking a lot of comfort for she was like she was really asking me questions like, what do you do for work? What do you like blah, blah, blah, right? It wasn’t being so much doing it with her.

JASON:         Well, that’s one thing too if they’re controlling the frame like you mentioned then who’s really leading the conversation?

RANDY: Well, there were times where I would cut the thread and like I did the trust routine during it. I did something like it got to the point in the conversation where it was appropriate. I was like—because she was a teacher. I was like, “Oh, how about you teach me something and I’ll teach you something?” And so I went through with the trust routine, and just walked her through it and sort of taught her everything and she thought that was really cool, I was trying to do my best because I don’t have a ton of material [00:29:23] at this point. I do have some stuff I was trying to throw that in there to sort of take the frame back.

JASON:         Got it. Okay. So the conversation basically this was like a longer conversation not just an opener.

RANDY: Yeah.

JASON:         So basically if you’re not constantly coming out with material and getting her laughing and spiking her emotional state, it’s almost like she wants you to keep talking but she has to do all the work the way that she knows how to do it. Does that make sense?

RANDY: Yeah, totally.

JASON:         You as the guy, you have to be able to take charge and keep the interaction fun for her. You can’t really expect the girl to do all the work for you and—

RANDY: For sure so—sorry go ahead.

JASON:         No, continue.

RANDY: How much material do I have to memorize if you’re having a really long conversation? Right? I’d feel like you have to memorize a ton of stuff.

JASON:         I mean yeah, see this is for me, I have like two, three hundred routines stacks that I’ve written down, but really, you only need 10-15 if you’re starting out or whatever because in that comfort phase there’s going to be more than just conversation. There’s going to be comfort going on, you’re going to be moving around the venue or at least you want to. You’re doing a couple of other things. Does that make sense?

RANDY: Sure, just like stuff that’s kind of fluff in between almost.

JASON:         Yeah. There’s going to be periods where the conversation is going to go comfort slower just getting to know each other, but then you want to spike it with some humor and maybe some attraction routines or make a joke out of her joke or tease her a little bit on something. You want to keep it fun for her because that’s what you’re really doing here is that you’re presenting yourself, you’re selling who you are and demonstrating that you’re a personal higher value, that you’re a person that she should be interested in because you’re worth it in a sense.

RANDY: Sure.

JASON:         So then—

RANDY: Cool, yeah!.

JASON:         To keep the conversation engaged is really having more routines. Being able to move around, being able to lead her, teach her something new; your frame is always like you want to be bringing value in a sense. You’ll always want to be bringing in—

RANDY: For sure. Right, awesome. So I guess just keep working on the canned material then take charge of the conversation, try to hold the frame as much as possible, and create attraction spikes.

JASON:         Yeah. That’s what’s going to make you come off as—basically, I guess the concept is if you’re in charge of yourself, you’re going to tend to lead the frame. If you’re congruent with who you are, not a lot of stuff is going to shake you. When you do get thrown like you’re saying negs and all these stuff, when you get thrown those kinds of tests, you’re able to just be so congruent that your own face bite think clearly and come up with another response.

RANDY: Okay, cool.

JASON:         Though it’s a mix of your internal state and your material and everything else.

RANDY: Cool. Yeah, that’s helpful. I had just one more thing I want to touch on before I wanted to get Jamie’s input as well.  One of the things… it’s more of the fear of approach and I feel I’m over analyzing the approach a lot of times. I’m almost, oh, this is not the perfect time to approach because the way that she’s sitting will be very difficult for me to come up body language wise or something like that. I never like finding myself stuck and not able to approach and I know that there’s the three second rule? But I don’t know. For somebody that’s just starting off to just let go, just let go into it and do it or what should it be?

JASON:         Yeah, there are two thoughts here. I don’t know if you ever heard, if you’re going to fail you want to fail fast?

RANDY: Okay.

JASON:         If you’re just starting, you want to get a quick calibration for the situation. Look, make sure that a guy or some potential distractions aren’t going to come and just pay attention to the surroundings and really just go. A lot of the times, if you  hesitate more than three, four, five seconds, or whatever, after spotting someone that you’re interested in, more times than not someone’s going to be looking at them too and he’s probably going to get there before you if you’re hesitating. Let’s say you see a girl that you just absolutely have to talk to and hesitating; I almost guarantee you that some other guy has spotted her and he’s already probably on his way there.

You do just want to jump on it, but assess the situation, maybe not look for excuses why you would fail but look at it more in like, okay, is this the best opportunity to succeed? You should ask yourself that question instead what’s going to go wrong?

RANDY: Okay. Thank you.

JASON:         Don’t over think it and just approach. Jamie, do you want to input?

JAMIE:          Yes, sure. Just want to add one thing, guys. At least at first, let’s just do one question each because this way we can get some chance for sure. We have an hour let’s actually stretch it a little bit. I want to make sure at least everyone gets at least one question in the first hour, let’s keep it to that and maybe come back for a second one if there’s time, I just want to add that in real quick. But really, it’s a good question, Randy, so I like what Jason told you about first, we don’t want to be, you don’t want to sound like too complicated. The 15 routines is a really good starting point and should definitely get you to where you get some good results and here’s why, and you and I talked about this the other day, but let’s look at the first phase, as you open, right?

RANDY: Yeah, right!

JAMIE:          Right, so you’re opening and I told you to have one, maybe two openers you use all the time, that’ll be two openers that are very dynamic, that are very scalable. You’re basically be using the same opener all the time, remember that, right?

RANDY: Yeah.

JAMIE:          Boom! Now you’re done with the opening. You know what? You don’t need a million openers as a matter of fact having a million openers will actually f*ck you up because you’ll be so just in your head, “Oh, my god, she’s in a coffee shop with two guys, what do I do?” Versus I just know I use the same thing all the time. There’s beauty in simplification so we actually don’t want you to be overwhelmed. What’s important is you’re aware of the phases and each phase just has a few routines you get damn good at. So openers are a great example. Opener, have one or two. I’m just going to make sure that I feel good about it and I can present it in a good way. After that I’d probably do my cold read. You have a West Coast vibe, you have an east Coast vibe, you have a Midwest vibe. I don’t have a million cold reads. You see that? It’s actually pretty simple.

RANDY: Sure.

JAMIE:          She’s going to respond, yes I am, no, I’m not, whatever. Based on her response I’m only going to have three potential DHV stories, right? Mini DHV you can also say buying temperature, too. They kind of, it holds many different purposes but the main thing is quickly you can do this mini DHV stories or a 2P’s, what we call buying temperature, to elevate her emotional state so she’s having fun with you and so you differentiate yourself from all the other guys. Really quickly you’re communicating to her, I have something different I have something going for myself. This conversation is going to be a little bit different from the last hundred guys you’ve spoken to.

RANDY: Okay.

JAMIE:          But notice, Randy, I didn’t say I have 10,000 little mini DHV stories or a 2P’s, three that’s it! Make sense?

RANDY: Yeah.

JAMIE:          But you get to know them really well, so you don’t need a million about 15 is good. You look at all the different phases and you make sure for each phase you have a couple of things that you are really good at and you feel comfortable with.

RANDY: Okay. Cool.

JAMIE:          And like Jason said, too. If you’re going to fail, fail fast. This is not some exact science here, you are going to fail sometimes. Sometimes it’s not going to go that well, but you’re also comfortable just getting in there and getting things going,  getting the neurons firing. If the first set fails, so be it. Now you’ve got yourself in a good state so now the next one is probably going to go quite a bit better because you’re having a lot more fun now, you’ve gone out of your head and got into a set and so the quicker you can get out there and start doing it even if the first one doesn’t work, well that just means you’ll going to be at the next one a lot quicker and the second one will probably go quite a bit better than the first one did. Don’t be overwhelmed—

RANDY: Sure.

JAMIE:          With the routines. Importantly is have an understanding of the phases and then for each phase have a couple that you can use that you’re very comfortable with.

RANDY: Okay.

JAMIE:          And then that kind of connects to your last question, which is over analyzing approach. We’re all going to overanalyze the approach if we have too many openers.

RANDY: Okay—

JAMIE:          And you talk very general, like her body language is not good. I mean personally I don’t want to be a nut job running around opening up everybody. I know certain sets will be harder, certain sets will be easier. Sometimes I’m like f*ck it, I’m going to do it anyway, but I think what’s good is having awareness and you get that with time, these sets could be a little harder, these ones could be a little easier but if I go to the harder one it’s going to be tougher her body language—she’s clearly not in a good mood. Dude, I remember years ago when I first got into this, being in LA with one of our founders James, and we’re sitting down at like Mel’s Diner, you know, whatever. And we see these two girls behind us.

He looks at them you just can see by the look on their faces, he looks at them, he looks at me, and goes, “That’s going to be a difficult set,” but he did it anyway. It didn’t work out to be honest with you, Randy, but the idea is you become aware which sets are much more likely to be in your favor for various reasons and which once are not, and the once that are not, you don’t take it personally. It’s like in sales, certain sales needs are tougher than others but it doesn’t mean you don’t go for the sale. Will you stop taking yourself too seriously? You start to allow yourself to fail. You are aware that this isn’t some perfectionist exact science and you allow it to be what it is. Even if you’re the best salesman in the world and that’s really what this is, Randy. This is a type of sales. Even if you’re the best guy in the world did you sell everybody?


JAMIE:          No! So when you recognize that and this is the type of sales and when you realize you’re not going to sell everybody, you don’t take it so seriously anymore, you’re like whatever it’s going to happen. I’m not going to be fearful of it because I’m just going to accept the fact that rejection and some forms of it is inevitable. So you know what, I’m just not going to take it that seriously. Truth is if I see her in two months—

RANDY: Okay.

JAMIE:          I might not even recognize her so who gives a sh*t.

RANDY: Really quick, here’s the thing, I live in a kind of smaller type of town. I have almost the fear that, I’m living in a college now, so let’s say I approach somebody in the sorority. And that gets word and I have a unique look in the community here and that I get booted out of the drive, you know what I mean?

JAMIE:          I hear you, man. A good knowledge of that is like the gym. We have a lot of member calls—

RANDY: Yeah.

JAMIE:          Who like, oh, you know I’m at the gym, I’m doing pick up there at the gym. You might want to be a little careful of that one because the place that you go to all the time it’s like a small little community, very similar situation. Would you not agree?

RANDY: Oh, totally.

JAMIE:          So here’s how you want to approach—this is my own personal take, I’m not speaking on behalf of everyone here but my… the way I’d like to say to go about that is kind of like this. I like to be sociable. I like to meet people at the gym but I’m very careful not to cross the line of being flirtatious and going for something sexual until I get them out of the gym. So I meet them in the gym, I get a good conversation going. It’s kind of like a marketing kind of getting them to like me just having fun conversation, but proper soul conversation.

If I get that girl at the gym have a fun conversation with me, I might say, “Hey! You seem cool. Me and some friends,” notice I’m not saying, “Hey, let’s hang out anyway,” I’d say, “… me and some friends, we’re going to go out and grab a drink there, we’re going to go to the beach and by friends I mean I have some girls, a bunch of people us going. You seem like a great addition to our little group. Why won’t you come join us?” If I offer that to her, girl at the gym, David, does that sound like, sorry, Randy, does that sound like I’m hitting on her or is it just sound like I’m being sociable?

RANDY: Yeah, for sure you sound sociable.

JAMIE:          So that’s absolute test. Yes, that’s the way you go about it. Now you do it, you’re sociable with purpose though. I know if I get her to a certain point I’m going to offer her something but I’m going to make sure what I offer at first, because I see her in the gym all the time, is going to be something a little bit more inconspicuous, something that is not quite outright hitting on her. Now here’s the key, if she comes though, if she comes to the beach or whatever I offered, then it’s game on. Then, once she’s there then I’ll start to be flirtatious, but I won’t do it while in my little community.

RANDY: Okay. Yeah, it’s good.

JAMIE:          Then you’ll see. That’s the way I’d go about it there. Just be a sociable guy with purpose, and then if you get them to—

RANDY: Okay.

JAMIE:           Do what you’re offering, ones they’ve shown up, then you can kind of start to turn on the flirtatious speak.

RANDY: Cool. Well, thank you guys so much on—

JAMIE:          On the net, make sure you’re always frequenting a new place. Don’t go to the same place all the time. It’s a little community like to Starbucks, don’t go to the same one all the time, just go the other ones. Sometimes go to a restaurant for your coffee. Do the best you can to kind of mixed it up a little bit so you don’t feel like people are seeing too much of you.

RANDY: All right. Right on, thank you.

JAMIE:          Yeah, no problem.

MIKE:             Yes, so can I jump in on that because I wanted to say something on with what you said or explain it to people?

JAMIE:          Is this, Mike?

MIKE:             Yeah.

JAMIE:          Yeah, go ahead before I’ll—and Jason will address first but fire away, man.

MIKE:             Jamie said over exposure, like it’s some topic… green talks about all green. What you’re doing is overexpose yourself to people so I would just touch on that right now a little bit.

JAMIE:          Yeah, go for it.

MIKE:             Like you don’t overexpose yourself to people, how is that? It takes away from the mystery and intrigue. Do you think you should really create an approach where you’re really hiding yourself in this kind of mystery and intrigue and you always have to play up these cards versus becoming someone that can constantly entertain? Well, how should you go about this?

JAMIE:          Jason, want to go first?

JASON:         Okay, so basically you’re asking if what character you should be in these situations where you’re not trying to draw too much attention for yourself?

MIKE:             I mean, not really. Let me do some off topic tangent—let me get to the real thing. So like… are you guys following the M3 model?

JASON:         Yeah.

MIKE:             Okay, so if you’re going direct to assuming attraction it’s almost like as if you’re skipping A2 stage and going into A3. In both end you say something after 10 seconds, 20 seconds of it, at least demonstrate a little bit of offering of value of DHV. And then part of calibration is seeing the girl and if she’s not interested in you should demonstrate and keep it short so that she can jump in and start investing in situation otherwise she would just get into a spectator mode. So how fast can you struck toward rapport if she’s not giving you IOI’s? Lovedrop said that it is DLV to go for a pop [00:47:03] before IOI’s, what do you say about that?

JASON:         I typically approach anyone that I am interested in whether they are or they are not giving me any kind of IOI’s. And even if I approach, whether I go direct or indirect, I don’t see—my type of direct it’s more… it’s almost like an indirect-direct. Let’s say I approach someone, “Hey, excuse me. Can I give you a compliment?” And then they are like, “What? Blah, blah, blah.” “Yeah, you look like a total badass.” So it’s like a compliment but not really a compliment and direct. From there, I really stick to the model anyway because I’m using—instead of using an indirect opener approach, I’m using a slightly more direct approach, but I’m also going to transition right away into some kind of attraction piece. So in that sense the compliment itself is, you look like a total badass, and I might follow up with, I’m serious like your first impression was different. That’s then I’m going into the attraction phase now and I’m probably going to transition into qualification right after that.

MIKE:             What I’m asking is, if you open with an IOI, the girl will open herself up to considering you as a sexual candidate and she will allow herself to kind of get hooked and then she will test you out, if you’re a sex worthy guy almost and… so what I’m going to say—and there’s also this thing girls like opening with comfort then going for attraction, is that more social circle kind of thing?

JASON:         Opening with comfort. Do you have any example of how you would open with comfort?

MIKE:             Let see, it was a situational opener and this is not my method but it’s like you open with a situational opener and you kind of transition into commonalities and then you can sexualize it if you want to but you’re qualifying at the same time so that she’s not thinking that something’s going to go down and then you take them into a social circle setting and then in the social circle the pre-selection does be achieved for you.

JASON:         Well see in a sense you’re always following the model because opening is just opening to get their attention, right?

MIKE:             Yeah.

JASON:         Whether you use the situational or direct or an indirect.

MIKE:             Yeah.

JASON:        Okay and then from there well, more times than not, humor is always going to win so I try to throw in some kind of humor spike. Does that make sense? So even if you make a funny comment about the situation and you guys both have a mutual little laughing moment, isn’t that in a sense generating some kind of attraction?

MIKE:             It is. Until—let’s say you go direct, what’s the maneuverability there? Like Erik said the same thing, right? And I’m saying—what he is said right now? He said like what is the maneuverability there because if the girl has made the decision in her mind that, “Oh, I don’t like this guy,” you’re going to get blown out some.

JASON:         Yeah.

MIKE:  But sometimes I see girls who would kind of hold themselves for a while before the decision is made that, “Oh, I don’t want to text him.” At that point, I think you can do everything you are saying and so it’s like he said, Erick said, it’s like a comedian going up and asking the audience to pause, these presents some personality. But when she is not going out in her mind that okay, I don’t like this guy, you can’t present that thing.

JASON:  Yeah, so basically—

MIKE:    The thing is it’s good to keep going direct then?

JASON: Well, like I mentioned, I don’t go direct like I don’t go up to a girl and I’m like “Oh my god, you’re beautiful I had to come and talk to you, ” or like,  ”You’re like the hottest girl in the bar,” and see even that depends on your… on the way you do it because let’s say I went as, “You know what, I was looking in that mirror for like the last 20 minutes checking myself out and then I saw you which totally distracted me I had to come and say hi.”  I kind of distract, I kind of like divert how much actual direct compliment I’m giving, does that make sense?

MIKE:  Yeah.


MIKE:  How do you go about by building your own routines like this one?

JASON: I just make that up on the spot right now and I’ve never even tested it. I wouldn’t even… I just wanted to give you an example.

MIKE:   Okay.

JASON: Yeah, direct is also like, “Hey, you know what? You’re like totally distracting me. I had to come and say hi,” those—that’s still one of my favorite up to this point. I use that majority of the time when I’m just going semi-direct. In that way, it creates, she’s going to throw in her judgment I guess, that’s what you called it whether she’s going to either be into you or not into you but you’re also not giving her everything on that one single approach where she doesn’t have a chance to completely cut you off if she’s not interested. You still leave yourself that space to be able to stack forward into another routine that could potentially save the set.

MIKE:  And so what about this thing where you go direct and you’re putting too much pressure on the girl to make a decision, what to do when she gets confused?

JASON: Well yeah, then why would you continue to go that direct?

MIKE:  Oh, I see. And how do you go about girls that are in to you, you can see that okay, she is attracted to me?

JASON: I literally use my same routines and I just assumed that, actually I don’t even assume that it’s going to be anything different. I just literally approach with the same clear headed mindset that I would but obviously the sets going to open faster and she’s going to be into you faster and react better to you but I don’t come in with that presupposition because you don’t know all the time for sure.

MIKE:  So I found that if I get a day two, doing all this stuff, it’s like I run out of things to say not because of this approach anxiety or fear sh*t just like I really feel like I don’t have anything to say to people at all. Because that thing is kind of made me a bit of lack experience because I grew up kind of isolated because of some shit and—

JASON:  What about now, do you have stuff going on in your life now?

MIKE:  Random, like I’m in college I can go to gym. I kind of fell off with the gym because of something but I’m going to start tomorrow and so—

JASON: “No, wait. You go to the gym, too? Oh really? You got guns? Nah uh. Let me see your guns,” and you just create that like playfulness. Like, “You go to school? Nah uh. You are actually smart like I thought you were just hot but now you are actually smart, too? That’s just like 2.3 right now.” You see how I just kind of like jump off of one topic and—

MIKE:  Yeah.

JASON: Keep it fun and playful, my tone changes.

MIKE:  Do you think my voice is a bit sleazy because if you’re delivering all of these high quality things your personality should be congruent to you coming from a qualification position [Crosstalk 00:54:33]

JASON:  Yeah, usually—

MIKE:  Person of authority to qualify her.

JASON: Yeah, you are always in a qualifying position. Once you are congruent with yourself and you have your stuff going on and you know what you want, I mean I guess at this point I’m like specific to like the freakin’ what I like girls to dress, how I like them to react. I know exactly what I like so I’m coming in from a place where it’s like, okay cool she flipped this switch, she flipped this switch, okay, she flipped this switch, okay, cool. She’s like gaining my attention or my attraction. It’s almost like the role shift.

MIKE:   Except that you talked about college school there’s this concept wide in the provoke for the day 2—

JAMIE:          I have to say we have to move on there’s a lot of question you embedded in there. We really need to go on to the next person. Would it be okay if I just give you some feedback and then we move on? I mean we have to give everyone else a chance to speak as well, okay?

JASON:         That is—

MIKE:  Okay.

JAMIE:          Jason, will it be okay if I just give a quick little feedback and then we move on to the next person?

JASON:         Yeah.

JAMIE:          All right! So I don’t know if this would help but you know, we don’t want you to be too overwhelmed by any of this stuff, Mike, so just kind of hit one thing at a time and get a little bit better at it. Let’s see here, a couple of things I wanted to say, you may not come before about like you know opening and how you’re jumping to A3 and I think Jason right hit on it pretty well. Just because you’re opening direct doesn’t mean you’re showing your hand. You have to get that concept correctly like I mean if you use one of the opener they gave you like, “Hey, you’re just totally distracting me. I don’t know if it’s your dress or high heels but I had to come over and say hello.” If I say something like that, I’m not actually complimenting her on her looks and complimenting on her sense of style,  the way she present herself, whatever.

So you have the plausible deniability of why you’re there and she can’t quite for sure say that you’re hitting on her so just because you’re going direct doesn’t mean you’re necessary showing you’re hand. Now the truth is sometimes because of the nature where you’re at she might make the assumption that you’re hitting on her. But that’s why we have objection handlers. If I open up a girl and she responds back with, “Oh! I have a boyfriend.” If she responds to me like that with the assumption that I’m hitting on her even though I’m not, then I might respond with something like, “Oh my god! Really? You just met me and you’re all ready telling me your problems?”  That’s why [Crosstalk] we have all this type of objection handlers.

MIKE:             Do you keep a sexual vibe [Crosstalk] at that time?

JAMIE:          What’s that?

MIKE:             Do you keep a sexual vibe on the open?

JAMIE:  No! The vibe is it’s intriguing, it’s engaging, it’s entertaining… just being  a cool guy! You’re marketing yourself to her. I’m not saying you can’t do the other one by the way. That’s not what I’m telling you, but I’m telling if you need to get—if you believe that being direct means you’re showing your hand, that’s not true.  You can be direct and be sexual if you want, and that has little risk and of course a little reward, but just because you’re going direct and being purposeful that, “Hey! I want to speak to you,” that’s not necessarily synonymous with hitting on her. So I want you to be clear, I want to be clear, that that’s not like you’re jumping right on A3. You following me?

MIKE:  Yeah. So what does it mean then to show hands?

JAMIE:          If I say, if in Jason’s example, “Hey! Can I give you a compliment? You just seem like a total badass.” That Mike, might just mean she looks like she knows martial arts it doesn’t mean that you’re attracted to her, you following me? Yes?

MIKE:  Yes!

JAMIE:          You might be attracted to her but you haven’t communicated that out right yet. What I mean by showing your hand is you haven’t actually telegraphed what your real intent is, so in Jason’s example, he’s gone indirect but he hasn’t telegraphed that he thinks she’s attractive. All he said she looks like a badass. That’s what I mean by that. If I am playing poker against you, Mike, I’m not showing you I got aces in the hole. I might be alluding to it maybe, maybe not. I’m not showing you what I got. In his example, he’s not showing her or telling her outright his interest. He’s just saying, “Hey, you know what? I just had to tell you’re a badass.” Nothing more, nothing less, that’s what I mean.

MIKE:  So when you’re—so what about the subtext? Because I can go [CROSSTALK].

JAMIE:          Hey, that’s the whole idea of frame control. In any conversation, I’m going to have my frame or my interpretation of what I think the conversation means and she’s going to have hers. The truth of the matter is, Mike, sometimes she’s going to make assumptions, some contexts that you’re hitting on her. You can’t control that but that’s why we have objection handlers. If I say, if I was Jason and I go in and I say, “Hey, can I give you a compliment? You seem like a total badass.” If she actually said to me, “Oh, that’s great, I have a boyfriend.”  I might then say, “Really? Wow, you just met me and you are already telling me your problems, huh?” I’m not putting her in her place that she made an assumption that’s completely ridiculous. Make sense?

MIKE:  Yeah.

JAMIE:          That’s why we have these in our routine stack to handle that. It’s just like in sales. You have objection handlers. If I’m selling you on something and you say, “Whoa, hold Jamie, why should I buy your services rather than someone else’s?” That’s an objection handler. It’s no different than her saying I have a boyfriend. That’s why I’m prepared to handle your objection, that’s all that is, but she is the one who’s making the assumption on what that sub-context means. Is she correct? No! Am I correct? I might or may not be. But that’s the idea of frame control. I have my frame or belief of what the conversation means, or doesn’t mean, and she has hers. And when two people come to a conversation, whoever has that stronger belief is going to win. I’ll give you an example, and then let’s close up and move to the next person. Here’s my belief, and if it’s my belief then it’s true. My belief is when I open a girl up, I am seeing if she’s worth hitting on. You might want to write that down by the way, Mike.

JASON:         Yeah, that club.

JAMIE:          When I open up, I’m seeing if she’s worth hitting on. I open up a girl and I used this in a previous coach call and it’s relevant here though, I open up a girl with, “Hey, I just want to come over and to say,” this was at a dance club by the way. I open up a girl with, “Hey, I just want to come over and say hello. I don’t know if it’s your good posture or your fancy footwork, but I wanted to say hi.” Now, you heard my example. Am I in any way fawning over her, Mike? The answer is no. Do you agree?

MIKE:  Yeah.

JAMIE: Okay. Awesome! So you can see I’m just being sociable, correct?

MIKE:   Yes.

JAMIE: But you know what, she’s still threw something at me. She goes something along the lines of, “Hey, this is fun but you haven’t asked me one very important question.” And the way she said it to me I knew exactly what she is referring to. She was referring to, about two minutes in the conversation, the fact that I’m talking to her without asking her what her relationship situation is. Are you following me?

So, she is throwing an objection at me. She is making her own interpretation of what the sub-context is, which is bullsh*t. Here’s the truth, I’m only talking to her to see if she’s worth hitting on, because that’s my belief and guess what I said to her, “Well, I know what you’re getting at here, but here’s the truth, I’m actually not even hitting at you. I’m seeing if you’re worth hitting on.” And she laughed. Make sense?

MIKE:  Yeah.

JAMIE:   So, I took control of the conversation because my frame was stronger than her frame. And I do that using my routines. Right? Make sense?

MIKE:  I see.

JAMIE: Beautiful. Let me close the one last thing here, because you mentioned about, and this is going to be very important for anyone listening to this call, you talked about how can I come up with my own routines. Here’s the truth, you don’t have to believe me, but time speak for itself. If two years from now, Mike, you are getting the same level of results, remember this conversation, you will not be able to make up your own routines. If you look at actors acting on the big screen, they have writers. That’s why they have writers. So they can have the material to actually act out. You’re not going to be able to write your own stuff in a way that it’s going to be compelling until you’ve learned truly how to put the mechanics together. That’s why we have boot camps. And again, you don’t have to believe me on this. Let time speak for itself.

If in two years, you’re getting the same level of results, and the reason why you are not able to write your routines is because you haven’t actually learned from an actual real coach, how these mechanics, how you can write your own routines. It’s a learning skill. It’s just like in sales, you learn sales. Any good salesman you or out of these any great salesman you ever meet, I promise you, Mike, has been coached or mentored by another great salesman. Another great salesman taught that person how to do, what to do, how to create their own routines.

Even in our world, look at our founder right? Erik, James, those people were—James learned from Erik. They learned how to create routines from masters. They’re not trying to do it in a little silo. And by the way, that’s how the world works. You want to be a top tennis pro? You better learn from a top tennis guy, someone who’s been to Wimbledon before. You want to be a top tear surgeon, Mike? You better go to Harvard Medical School or whatever. You are only going to be as good as the people you’re striving yourself with, but don’t think you’re going to become some kind of professional, comedic writer who’s capable of writing a syndicated show watched by millions of people, if you haven’t been taught by someone who has already achieved that. It’s just not going to happen.

You got to go to school before you can teach. Make sense?

MIKE:  Yeah.

JAMIE:  Though, my advice to you on that one is very simple, you got to do boot camp. You got to do something in person. The world’s never going to tell how you come across, you’re not going to learn how to do these stuff until you have an understanding more than any book will ever tell you. If you don’t believe me—

MIKE:  Can you come to my city?

JAMIE: We can talk about that offline. But, I invite you to do this, see what your results are this month. See how many woman you approached and see how many woman you get somewhere with. See what those numbers are, write them down. If in six months, you’re still the same thing, you might want to listen to what I just told you. Make sense?

MIKE:  Yeah.

JAMIE:  Beautiful. And you’ll increase a little bit but also remember too, because you’re doing certain things with us, see you’ll make some increases. But remember, the most expensive thing in this life is time. Even if you could somehow learn this in theory in ten years, that’s ten years wasted, dude. Now you’re in your 30s, you could be doing some cool sh*t in your early 20s while you’re still in college. Time is very expensive commodity so you don’t want to waste it. It’s not worth trying to figure sh*t out and frustrating yourself and deal with annoying situations when you could take a quick rocket ship to where you want to be.

JASON:         Yeah.

JAMIE:          So, it’s worth considering that as well. Okay?

MIKE:             Yeah.

JAMIE:          Anyway, great chatting with you, man. Let’s let the next person go.

JASON:         So, now we have Bill and Allison. So, Bill?

BILL:   Hey, guys! I just rejoined VIP about an hour and half ago and a lot of things that I’m looking to get out of it but one of the big ones is to be comfortable approaching girls when I’m out and have that proper state of being and being able to do that and do that effectively. I’ve got a lot of work to do, I’m not there yet and so what I’ve been doing most for the last probably eight or nine months is using these online apps, the Tinder and the Bumble stuff is out there and meeting a lot of girls that way, I’ve probably been on maybe 25 or 30, I mean a lot. And I try my gambits to structure it to where, wherever we’re going, whatever we’re doing, it’s not going to be a sitting across from each other at a table. At least I want to be sitting next to them or standing next to them or being in a position to escalate kino because I know how important that is based on these calls and the books and stuff to build comfort and also to build attraction.

And so my question, I had one last night, I wear studs being on a patio, it rained in the city I’m in, it kind of screwed it all up so we had to move inside. I found myself in the situation that I’m trying to avoid which is me sitting across from the table, I can’t reach her but there I was. Going well, lots of laughing, lots of self grinning, lots of smiling; it’s all doing good but my question is how can, how do I maneuver out of that situation where I’m just—I feel like I’m stuck like once I’m there, I can get it to a certain point, everyone’s having fun and laughing and then it’s like I can’t… it’s… I get stuck if I’m in that spot. I can’t, I mean it seems risky to just go sit next to her like if we’re on a booth just to go sit next to her in the booth if it’s not proper to do so.

It seems like there might be just a date ender perhaps if she’s not ready for that. So, how do you maneuver out of that situation or how would you all go about that situation?

JASON:         What kind of place where you at? Was it like a bar or a restaurant?

BILL:   This was I would say it was a bar restaurant. It’s a hotel bar but they serve food and so there is a bar but we’re sitting at a booth. They have like an outdoor patio so—

JASON:         But it was raining.

BILL:   It was raining. If the weather was good it would have been great to sit out there. It’s live, it’s fun—

JASON:         I mean if you’re there and you’re in a booth, I usually request for the bar right off the bat, “Can we sit on the bar?” Or I’ll pick a spot where I want to sit where it’s more strategic that’s right off the bat as they’re moving you. Were you able to do that?

BILL:   I could have, there were other spots and I probably should have done a little more mindful of it. But I was just kind of in the moment and—

JASON:         Yeah.

BILL:  Just trying to not—just trying to comply right when we’re moving inside.

JASON:         Because other things—I’ve had moments where I’m stuck across the table but the whole time and especially now I notice that just for my words I’m able to build so much attraction that these last couple of dates I haven’t even like done that much kino per se, where I still end up with the girl at the end of the night and it was really just from how much fun she was having in the conversation. Now, there are certain things that you can do when you’re sitting there hand type stuff like palm reading or like, “Hey, let me see your hands,” or “Oh, let me see your nails,” or “Oh, what the f*ck, these are cool earrings,” and you reach across and then you push and pull, you know? So, there’s some—

BILL:   Yeah.

JASON:         Kino techniques that you could still be doing. There’s also—you can create moments of tension where you can just stay quiet and look at her like make eye contact and see how she reacts if does she like look away, does she do that and then you create those little moments of tension and then you pull back. Does that make sense?

BILL:   Yeah. Though, you just look them in the eye but don’t say anything and just let it be sort of a moment of silence so to speak.

JASON:         Yeah. You create the tension yourself. It’s almost like you’re creating the sexual tension without saying it.

BILL:   I gotcha.

JASON:         So, even if I’m not verbally saying it or… because I typically when I go on dates and stuff I tried not to be like making out and doing all these stuff at the same venues I go but I still, you know, I know the importance of it. I’ve had dates where I really don’t even make out with the girl until we come back to my place and then we just start making out and have sex from there.

MIKE:             Yeah. Okay.

JASON:         I guess the more depth you get at it, the less of a big deal it is. But you still want to be escalating some sort whether she is like hitting you and laughing or like, “You’re freaking crazy like I can even like hangout with you anymore.” And you push her away a little bit or like you do a roll off. You’re still maintaining that that same push-pull dynamic creating tension and letting it go. And that’s, I mean if you’re stuck across the bar from them you could have been like, “Hey, you know what? I don’t like this table. Let’s go to the bar over there.” Or like, “Hey, let’s go walk around this place.” Moving her is another option, too.

BILL:   Yeah. I like that idea, I should have moved her to the bar and we’d be standing up and it was a whole different feel to it and as we weren’t having dinner, we’re just having drinks but it kind of felt like dinner because we’re sitting in a table or  [Unintelligible 1:12:15]… I don’t know. I was trying to structure it one way and then I just kind of get this curved ball.

JASON:         Yeah.

BILL:   Playing in myth a little bit, I mean we’ll see I—she had a dog, she had to go to take care of the dog that’s kind of how the whole thing ended. It was like, all right, well, this is fine, well, talk to you again soon, but I don’t know. It’s… I’ll probably try and text her or reach out, and see if she wants to see each other again but I don’t know. The ones that I’ve been on that you know, the best are the ones were I’m next to them and it’s not aggressive kino but just building it in the… your stories, everything you’re saying and you’re touching them in the arm or touch them in the leg—

Or just whatever. And those are the one that always go the best but if I’m, if I can’t even, I don’t know. I think, what you said make sense to be able to create a push-pull tension with your word and the palm reading, I need to reread that section because I’ve… again, I’ve got to say I do have a lot of work to do and lot of things to warn. I’m excited and energized to do it I had a good sketch with Jamie  before we got on here but that make sense, just move them and also moving them, this is the last thing, I know we are trying to move a little quickly here but moving them also can move with you, that’s a fact indicate some level of interest as well as if more if you move them to a different place like bar [Crosstalk 01:13:53].

JASON:         Yeah. All of that is compliance and you showing leadership.

BILL: Thanks. Okay. That is very helpful.

JASON:         Jamie, you got an input on this?

JAMIE:          Oh, yeah. Just a quick, small something. Bill and I had a nice, little conversation before. Bill’s actually attending L.A. in September 29 to October 1st.

JASON:         All right.

JAMIE:          So, you will meet him in person soon enough. This actually, I’m just going to say one, maybe one quick little thing and Mike, this will apply to you as well. You know a lot of stuff guys is not really complicated. It’s just an awareness, right? You know the multithreading for example. Just knowing your routines well enough that you can actually just listen, right? What’s great is you’re aware that sitting across from somebody is not a good idea, so okay, not a big deal, you made a mistake but now you’re building an awareness in the future whenever you go to a bar, try and just, I mean go to a restaurant, try and go eat at the bar, have drinks in the bar.

Be somewhere where you’re in proximity and if it is not available, go somewhere else like, “Oh, my god! Hey, actually let me take you here.” And go. Just put yourself in situations that are going to be—they’re going to facilitate what you want to happen. And the fact you’re building awareness on these things that’s just going to make your dates and interactions go so much better. And I guess maybe, and you already talked about this but maybe, for you, Mike, just being aware that moving, moving the girl, bouncing; those kind of the things? Those incredible tools you don’t even have to be that eloquent and or to… you don’t have to have a million routines to just be aware to do that.

For example, if you bounce a girl in two different places with in the night, two or three different places, she’s going to feel like, she’s been two or three different dates with you.  Right?  You can meet a girl randomly in the middle of the street and you could say, “You know, this might sound a little crazy it sounds crazy but I was about to grab a cup of coffee. Come join me.” Is there anything that’s smooth about what I’ve just said? No! But I’m taking advantage, I’m aware that I have an opportunity and I’m taking, I’m trying to take advantage and move her somewhere. So moving is an incredible tool that even regardless of what you say, just having an awareness to do that is huge.

So, that’s great, man. And yeah, that’s all you’re doing right now. You’re building an awareness, you’re building an archive of things that you know are going to give you a good chance to make things happen to yourself. Moving, bouncing, not putting yourself in places where you’re not able to do some of the kino escalation routines we do. And after a while, like Jason is saying, just become comfortable, like you know what? Words—kino or no kino, if I have to do my words, I’ll build enough there, that I’m still going to build intrigue and attraction. There’s no rush. I don’t need to get a kiss within two minutes. It’s there. I’ll make her wait for it. I’ll make here earn it. I’ll make her feel like she deserves it, and so you just build that stuff up. It’s not a big deal. Remember high value individual, you know, if you’re a high value individual then you don’t need rush anything. Okay?

BILL:   Yeah, that makes sense. I think I was probably just a little impatient because it was going well and then it’s like I just I feel like there has to be a transition at a certain point but it sounds like really there doesn’t need to be. At a specific point I mean, I think you just have to use the judgment and transition as it becomes natural organically so to speak, but usually moving on these things, I… usually that’s part of my routine and all these is we’ll go somewhere and put them the idea, it’s really I’m testing them. I try to move to see if they agree the move its like okay, I know they are interested or at least interested on some level and so usually I use it almost more of as a test, I guess a compliance test as we all called it but now that all make sense. That does is very helpful.

JAMIE:          Awesome.

JASON:         All right.

BILL:   Thank you.

JAMIE:          Allison?

ALLISON: Yes. Okay. Well, I’ll start out by saying I mean, I feel like a lot of the call was about approach and I definitely still have—that’s my biggest challenge normally is in the approach and more or less I found that opening has come a little bit easier but kind of stacking the conversation forward. I have a lot of awkward moments. Again, I’m going less and I feel we did talk a lot about that on the call. So I’ll bring up kind of another issue where, I pretty much like had a great success but it was almost like overwhelming to where it messed things up.

So, Jaime talked to me the last time. He talked about bringing, inviting people out to groups. Right? I had, I guess maybe a month ago a really successful day where I had kind of scheduled dates off of all of it and moved things forward with, the majority of the girls that I had met, but in terms of a group outing a part of my personal life, my life style, I travel. So I live in an RV and I travel around, so I don’t know a whole ton of people in every area I’m in. So most of the people are going to be new people, and maybe girls that I’m trying to move things forward with, and I actually I set up, I set myself up for success I guess in a particular outing. I arranged like a group thing. I invited all these girls out and one of the girls was somebody that I had hooked up with previously.

Part of it was, another thing, Jamie, I talked to you about that ex that I was trying to fix things with and then it went South. I should have just left that but a liaison invited her out. That didn’t end up working out anyway. She didn’t end up coming, but that’s probably better. It’s a messy situation but anyway, I had these girls out, the one girl that I had hooked up with in the past. It wasn’t enough to make me feel good about the situation with the ex, and so I feel like I need to find somebody that I’m more interested in. I almost had too much going on basically.

I had all these girls out, I was able to actually direct everyone there to move from the one bar we were at to a whole different venue. I was getting interest from everyone there, I was getting kino, I had two of the girl feeling me up at the same time but I ended up going home with the same girl because I didn’t know how to move it forward with everything going on without pissing someone off or making it awkward and kind of like when you are setting these group situations and you do a good job, I guess like what do you do when you do too good of a job, how do you kind of isolate the one that you… I know which girl I would have most like to move things forward with, you know the best bet in terms of like the girl I was most interested in but I kind of didn’t know how to isolate that situation away from everything else.

I did a really good job setting my self-up to look like I was the leader, I was the person in charge, I had everybody’s interest. I set myself up to seem very attractive but then I kind of like just flopped on the whole thing and ended up going home with the easy choice because I didn’t know how to isolate the right person and move it forward. If that make sense.

JASON:         Yeah. I guess might—the best way I’m relating it, it’s almost like if you threw a party, right? It’s your party. Right off the bat, everyone there already is going to think of you as higher value because you’re running the show, right?


JASON:         So even if you didn’t hook up with them that night, you still embedded that image of you being this type of person so when you do get in contact with them again, don’t they already have this kind of idea of you and who you are?


JAMIE:          That automatically already kind of embeds that seed of who you are so when you talk to them individually they already have a feeling for, “Oh, she’s really cool.” “She’s blah, blah, blah.” Now, as far as isolating your target, I take it as like when I had an after party and let’s say I pool three girls and two dudes from a bar and I’m like, “Hey, guys. I’m having an after party.” I let them do their thing but whoever my target is, I’m kind of hovering over them the whole time and keeping that attraction strong. Building it, building it, building it; but then the fact that I’m pulling away and entertaining the rest of the group when they are seeing me in my, I guess in my element taking charge of the situation, it’s even making me more attractive because now I’m creating that opportunity to be missed.

ALLISON: Okay. What about when you’re trying to isolate and someone else’s sort of hovering over you?

JASON:         Yeah, from there, I’ve actually had that where I had to kind of have my friend  distract her where then I was able to go for my target and then I had to get out of there because that was the only way that the other person was going to leave me alone.


JASON:  So I got with my target, I’m like, “Hey, I got to show you this cool spot across the street.” “What about everyone?” “We’ll be right back.” So then we went across the street and I’ve done this in a lot of situations where there’s a big group and I have to isolate a target. I try to move on to somewhere else where if we are gone, it doesn’t really matter because the group still continues. So, let’s say you would have taken your target, taken her outside, “Hey, I got to show you this really nice garden outside.” “Hey, I got to show you this really cool bar,” or talk about something, “Hey, dude, have you ever had a drink over there? Oh my god, you got to try this one drink, but it’s only in that bar over there. Let’s go there real quick.” And then you isolate your target that way the person that’s hitting on you is no longer able to find you and you leave with that target so that it’s you and her now and let’s say you have two or three potential targets in that group, now those two or three are not going to be like, “Hey, where does she—where did Allison go?” They’re going to be still be invested in their own group, in what’s going on in that group. Does that make sense?

ALLISON: Yeah, that makes sense. What about the situation the other night, the group didn’t actually know each other before hand. They were all sort of… it was something that I orchestrated, invited everybody out and I guess it might have been, if I had disappeared, I feel like it might have been pretty noticeable to the rest of the group, I mean they were getting along, they were getting to know each other. But it was definitely—and it wasn’t—I was only in Miami for a few months so it wasn’t like I know everybody all that well either, it was, you know.

I mean that’s kind of generally the situation I’m going to be in to where most of the time the majority of people that I’m around are going to be new because I travel and I just stay in places for a couple of months.

JASON:         Yeah. But does it make sense if there were—towards the end of the night, they were kind of friendly with each other already and interacting where you didn’t have to be mediating everything?


JASON:         So then—


JASON:         Yeah. I was going to say just in my head I’m like, “They’ll be fine without me, I’m leaving over here with this girl, because that’s my target. I’ll come back, maybe she’ll come back, too, or not or whatever.” Then I’ll just come back to the group like nothing happened. “Oh, where were you?” “Oh, I didn’t feel good.” “Oh, I had to go to my car real quick.” “Oh, I have to go pick up something.”


JASON:         Does that—


JASON:         Kind of answer your question?

ALLISON: Yeah. That makes sense.

JASON:         Again, I don’t want to see one of my targets seen me with the other girl.


JASON:         Then come back and try to get with another target. You know that’s—I don’t want them to have that perception of me.


JASON:         Is there more to it, or this is kind of?

ALLISON: No. That definitely helped. Yeah, it was just it was like overwhelming and I was exactly it that I didn’t want to piss one person off to isolate another.

JASON:         Yeah, and it’s more of that like, “Hey!” That’s why if you isolate, they don’t see what is happening versus like if you try to take it to the side of the bar or something to make out or whatnot.

ALLISON: Right. Okay.

JASON:         Jamie, do you have input on this?

JAMIE:          Few things, I mean I guess one of them is—if I’m traveling somewhere, Allison, I’m somewhere for two days. I’m kind of a little bit of a different mindset there. Let’s just say I go to Hawaii for an extended weekend and I don’t know anyone there. In those kinds of scenarios I typically would just do a one on one. It’s kind of like I’m coming in as this crazy traveler, high energy kind of state. And I meet somebody, I’m like, “Hey! Let’s grab drinks later.” I mean I’m just kind of like go for it all. There’s no game, I’m not trying to orchestrate anything.

So when I’m traveling I kind of come at it from a little bit of a different angle. I’m not trying so much to orchestrate some—like what you’ve talked about is awesome! And it’s really great when you’re some place where you’re… there are a lot or you’ve been there or you’re going to be there for a while, but if you’re… sounds like you travel a lot and when you’re traveling a lot, sometimes it’s a little bit more beneficial just to go for it just straight forward. In that case you kind of simplified it, it’s just you and that one person because who gives a shit. You’re only there for a little while anyway. If it doesn’t work out it doesn’t work out. And you just go for it.


JAMIE:          Kind of what we were talking about earlier. If you’re going to fail, you fail fast. You just go for what you want, if it doesn’t work, awesome. You go on to the next one.


JAMIE:          That might be, in your situation, sometimes it might be ideal for you to just kind of come at it from that angle. I don’t have time to waste. I’m here for three days, a week, f*ck it! I’m just going to go for it. In that case you kind of focus a lot more on your approach and really say, “Okay. I approached ten women. Four or five of which have really taken a potential interest to me. This one’s my favorite I’m going to go for her first.” Kind of like that but I’m going to make it kind of more of a—I’m just going to focus on her. If she comes out it’s going to be yes to or whatever. I’m not going to worry so much about having a big group or doing social game because I’m not in a place I generally live.


JASON:         Yeah, just to add to that. Typically when I’m travelling, my whole day, I literally just spend it approaching everyone that I like and trying to get on a date like that same night. And if I don’t then I’m still going to go out that night and probably meet someone there, you know what I mean? So—


JASON:         It’s really like a higher, it’s more of like a high numbers game where I’m like, “Okay cool. I’m just here for two, three days like I probably won’t even see anyone again.” The social game, the way I was talking about it, it’s like yeah, I’m here where I’m stationed at for a good amount of time or where I’m living, and I still want to maintain a relationship with those three, four girls or whatever. Then that’s when I’m going to play it more safe and yeah, exactly like Jamie said, if you’re only there for a couple of weeks, I just go straight for it. I try to pool as many numbers as I can during the day and try to get them on a date as soon as possible and of course, whoever my favorite is, that’s the one that I’m going to target first.


JAMIE:   Another thing you could do, too, maybe not relevant to your situation because no one really knew each other, right? Everyone was meeting each other for the first time?

ALLISON: Right! Yeah.

JAMIE:          Sometimes you’re in a situation where you do open up a group, right, and it’s like there’s a couple of them, and maybe two to three people like you like I had this situation before. I opened up a set, two to three like me. I can see there, I’m getting IOI’s from two of them, and then when I do to kind of make clear my intention is, since they know each other I’ll say, “Hey,” so I’ll qualify her with this—I’ll use this qualifier, I’d say, “Hey, so what do you like about this girl?” I will actually ask the—I don’t really like this word that much because it sounds very objectifying—basically I’m going to ask the obstacle what she likes about her friend, so what I’m doing is I’m getting the obstacle—I’m doing two things, I’m getting the obstacle to qualify her, the one I want, plus, I’m also, if you think about them I’m also stating my intentions. I’m basically letting her know where I’m going. So it’s clear to the target, it’s clear to the obstacle and there’s really no hurt feelings. It’s kind of, okay, or I’m happy for my friend, or whatever.

ALLISON: No. Can I actually bring something up with that and this is like a very kind of different—this is where I think l like the whole lesbian side of it kind of—so either the girl that I like the most, I think, one of the other girls she was interested in me she was definitely interested in me and these were actually two that knew each other in advance. I met the one girl through the other girl. The girl that I was most interested in I met through the other girl and I think they were both interested but I think the one that I had originally met also was interested in her friend which is a little bit, I don’t know, you know like asking her that I don’t know, you know kind of how that would play in, if that would push her more in that direction or if—you see what I’m saying?

JAMIE:          Are you saying that you’re in a situation where you’re competing a little bit, potential, is that what you mean?

ALLISON: Yes, yes.

JAMIE:          Okay, well that’s—keep going.

ALLISON: It’s a bit of extreme dynamic.

JAMIE:          That’s okay, you know what? There’s a lot of situations in life, where many people are vying for the same potential partner, right? And in that case, it’s that person to some degree who gets to the side. It’s kind of, “Okay. I see two people vying for my attention here,” in this case you and your… one of the other girl was vying for this one you really wanted, so to some degree—

ALLISON: Right! But then also was interested in me, like she was definitely also interested in me, both of the girls, but one of them was also interested in the girl I was interested in.

JAMIE:          That’s okay. Let’s simplify it here.


JAMIE:          Your job at that point is very simple, get the one you really want to get so interested in you that she makes a decision.


JAMIE:          Don’t worry about what the other one wants, forget that sh*t.


JAMIE:          Just get focused. Focus on having your routines and various things you’re going to do. And when I say routine, again, I knew you’re kind of new to this, Allison.  Routines are not a gimmicky thing. “How’s the weather?” That’s a routine. It’s a sh*tty routine but that’s a routine that most people do. “Hey! How’s the weather?” “Nice day today.”


JAMIE:          Whatever.  That sucks! But the idea is we have these various routines we used to differentiate ourselves so we get attraction. So the idea is, don’t worry so much about your friend, be respectful, sure! Be respectful, be polite… but other than that, your job is to present yourself in such a way so you are so appealing and you’re demonstrating that with your routines, appealing sexually, intrigue…everything that she decides you’re the one she wants to be with. And when she makes the decision just like, you know, when she makes the decision be clear because she’ll start to give you IOI’s. Wow, she’ll start doing things with you to show you that she is essentially decided that she is interested in you more than anyone else there. So, I think the challenge for you in the future is if you are in that situation again, kind of keeping your eye on the price.  Don’t get distracted from what anyone else is thinking. Forget that. Hey, I’m sure your other friends are nice person. You have a goal. You have suddenly what you’re going for!


JAMIE:          So focus, right? So focus on being so awesome that the one you want is going to essentially decide to be with you. It’s like you know, it’s like with me. If I’m competing against other guys, I know I have some competition there. But I’m going to do the best I can to engage and differentiate myself so much that I’m going to get the IOI’s not my competitor. And then once I get that then it is what it is, I’m going to move forward.

ALLISON: Right.  Okay.

JAMIE:          Hey, you want to be polite and respectful to people but you don’t want to be so concerned that it detracts from what you are doing. I think another really quick good example as what that little routine which, again, might not been relevant there, so if I open up two girls… it doesn’t even matter, if I open up two girls and both are interested, but I say to the obstacle, “Hey, so what do you like about this girl?” I’m not being  impolite, I’m being respectful but I’m also letting her know,  hey I’m going in this direction. So it’s kind of like that. I can’t be too concerned about hurting peoples—I can’t be too concerned about hurting people’s feelings. I’m just going to be respectful and polite about it, but I’m going to move forward in a very purposeful way. So in the future yeah, just be like keep your eye in the prize, have your various routines you use to really build that attraction so she decides that you are the one she really wants to spend time with.

ALLISON: Right.  Okay.

JAMIE:          Jason, you want to add anything back to that one or…?

JASON:         Because all I was thinking is the same thing like I have been in situations where I’ve been with a wing. And I’ve had his girl was more into me than it was for him where it’s like every little thing I was doing was making her crack up but I didn’t want to be the bad friend and take her away and this has actually happened a lot where by the end, my friend just completely swamp out and I ended up hooking up with the girl because just who I was naturally.


JASON:         And even though they had a prior knowledge of each other and basically he couldn’t keep it going where she just lost all attraction for him and ended up chasing me so that’s really, once you have that level of congruence you have your routines down, you are leading the whole group, you are making everyone laugh; you’re naturally going to become more attractive to everyone in the room and if the friend does not bring in that same level of charisma to the interaction, of interesting, of humor that you are? She’s probably going to get blown away where you are going to be the best suitor.


JAMIE:          There’s one other really cool tool for—we’ve been saying during this call, like an awareness, lots of this, again, a lot of this is actually not complicated just being aware. One thing you can do, too, is—especially when you’re dealing like a number of you know, like a dynamic like yours. And you have these routines, right? Like maybe for example, you have this routine—I’m just throwing some out there by the way. I’m not saying this is for you but let’s just say you have a routine where you know how to read someone’s palm, okay? So always make your target the focus of that.

So for example if I’m with a group with three girls I might say, “Oh my god, I just learned the craziest thing! Hey, did you know, blah, blah, blah.” I’ll mention this palm reading trick I just learned. And I’ll turn to my target and say, “You look like you’d be perfect for this.”I won’t tell her why, but I will make her be the subject of my routines, so I’m doing a few things here. One, I’m purposely making her the focal point of what I’m doing.

Obviously I’m getting kino involved because that’s part of the routine but I’m essentially redirecting my energy towards the one I really want anyway. You know what I’m saying? So when you have these various routines that you start using regularly, they work really well, they kept people laughing, engaged, whatever; just make your target can see find an excuse to make your target the participant for whatever that routine is. Doesn’t that make sense?

ALLISON: Right. Yeah.

JAMIE:          So that gives you way to kind of focus specifically on the one you want.


JAMIE:          That’s just another tool.

JASON:         Right. So did we address everyone on the call?

DAVID:           Yeah.

JAMIE:          I think so, yeah.

JASON:         All right, guys. That was a good call. See you guys in two weeks. Anything you’d like to add, Jamie?

JAMIE:          No, no. Awesome call. Loved it. Yeah, any questions that ever… just shoot me an email but otherwise, yeah, we’ll see you in two weeks.

MIKE:             Thanks guys!

DAVID:           Thank you!

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