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TAY 188: How to plan the best date with results

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Today’s podcast we discussed how best plan a date to get the best possible results and how to take advantage of your everyday situations, even if they seem bad, and construct it into an amazing DHV story. We also discussed how to handle girls with boyfriends and turn the situation to your advantage. Also, we cover how to set your boundaries in your own relationships.

JAMIE:          Okay. So, Michael?


JAMIE:            Let’s go.

MICHAEL: All right. I got a question. I need a small question answered, also just to add to, however, I’m going on a third date with a girl. I’d probably have the date near home. She sent me a picture of her, laying in bed after study and still look like she haven’t shirt on and I just mentioned, you look like you need a back rub, and she’s telling me she’s not going to stop me from doing that. So probably I kind of establish like, she’s thinking about sexual stuff and whatnot which is fantastic, because if I could get my hands on her that’s all over, but, it’s getting into that point, you know what I mean? So, we’re going to go on a date. I’m thinking about maybe take her down the beach and make some food, fire up some bird cats and make some pretty awesome chicken and stuff, bring her back here or maybe go for seafood and then come back here. However, I’m just curious about like she’s texting me now asking me how my day is. I feel like we’ve been texting too much and what kind of tone do I want to take then? Saying, how much texting do I want to do between now and Tuesday or phone conversations?

JASON: Okay. If you don’t mind me asking you, how is your first and second date? I just kind of want to see where this is heading like.

MICHAEL: Went pretty good. The first date was just a little bit, for me, I thought it was just a little bit weird but it could have been better. However, the second date, I made a picnic and took her to a park bench and we just sat there and had a wonderful picnic. She had a great time and she seems like she was enjoying herself. So, in our text, in all that, it’s been enthusiastic. I know she’s been, but I never trust that though.

JASON: Now, in those first two dates, were you able to escalate sexually in any way even if it’s make out or some kind of kiss, or?

MICHAEL: Yes. I did go for the kiss. I’m never shy about that. Sometimes I go a little too soon maybe but I did go for that touching and not so, yes.

JASON: Okay. So now like you mentioned your place as close to home. Preferably you could even tell her to meet you at your house and you guys would go from there.

MICHAEL: Would you go to a restaurant or go the beach thing or I’ll go make something?

JASON: Well, see, the thing is like; I can’t remember the last time I took someone to a dinner date. Just me in general. For me, if I’m going to take someone to a restaurant, it’s almost like I’ve already been hooking up with them, I’m already comfortable where it doesn’t feel like I’m going to have to sit with that person for like an hour. See, typically, my dates, I like to just keep it fun. Like, if we meet at a bar, we will go to another bar. We will go on a hike. So maybe, the beach thing, is that close to your house?

MICHAEL: Yeah. Like 200 feet.

JASON: Oh, then yeah. Definitely just the beach thing, do the food thing and walk right back up to your house. So your question exactly like, what else do you need to really hit on?

MICHAEL: Okay. Going to the beach is going to be a problem because I’m not a short on and I have no skin on my knees, and she’s going to want to know why. And last weekend I’m walking up the street in downtown in my city, and there’s four dudes that are throwing food and assaulting this homeless guy that’s in our neighborhood then I walked to ask them. And like—I played minor hockey in South Western Ontario and it’s Jamie Wells but that’s all about I’m sure, I walked past these dudes and I told them to fuck off knowing that this is going to end in rough ways.

So anyways, I get on the one dude and pounced on him and the street buddies they just f**ked off and let their buddy be fed to me, right? But I took them down so hard, I whacked my head, I got concussions. I got no, from my knee on top, got no f**king skin on my knees. However, the public, this is a great social experiment, the women standing around were looking at me like I was a god, got stars in their eyes and people are coming up thanking me, they were like, “That is so awesome. We can’t believe you stuck up for that guy and you sort it all that out.” The police came and they were like—a guy pulled a knife on me but the cops showed up and they were like thanks for being a Good Samaritan all that but don’t do that. However, this girl’s going to want to know why I’m all fucking scratched up. Do I tell her what happened?

JASON: Yeah. That’s an amazing story.

MICHAEL: It’s like your knees are DHV, dude.

JASON: That’s super DHV. I would tell every single woman I met.

MICHAEL: From now on, you’re going out in shorts.

JASON: Nope. But, yeah. I would introduce it like—I would even address it before they even asked. Like I had a cut in my hand, and I would just jump on it, just be like, “So you’re probably wondering why my knees are scratched up.”


JASON: “What do you mean?” “Well, the craziest thing happened last week, right? And then you just go into your story and word it out how like, maybe you want to just work on wording where it sounds like very flowing, very fluent.  But other than that, I would definitely wear the shorts and say how it happened. Does that make sense?

MICHAEL: Cool. Absolutely! I just wasn’t sure whether to bring that up because it was me getting physical and absolutely violence too, right? So, yeah.

JASON: Well, you don’t want to say that you pounded this guy’s face into the pavement. But you could be like, yeah, these guys were harassing this homeless man like throwing food at him and stuff, right, and I just have something in me like could not let that happen, so I confronted the group and one of the guys came and blah, blah, blah. I took him down, and then this happen, all his buddies run away. Does that make sense? You don’t have to…

MICHAEL: Absolutely. I’d worked on—I actually sort of kind of crafted the story a little bit so that it’s not like what I described to you and then I’ll practice it and make sure that it comes out just right. But it was the coolest social experiment because, dude, I couldn’t believe the look in all the women standing around me, they were with their boyfriends; that is not their boyfriend doing this. They were like looking at me like take me now. I’ve never seen so many women captivated like that in a sort of a moment, right? It was really cool.

JASON: Yeah. I mean, I would definitely use that and just tone down the violence, tone up the emotional aspect of it.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Okay. Cool and real quickly about like texting and phone call booths. How much of this girl should I have, like it is seems to be, I know you guys like it only for logistics but it seems to be being too much.

JASON: Let’s see, typically when it’s a new girl, it’ll be kind of back and forth, randomly throughout the day. I noticed just because everyone is doing their own lives or whatever, and if she’s texting back and forth right away, right away, I’d rather make a jump on a quick call and do a ten minute call where it would have been four hours of texting and the call may able to show more of myself, have more humor, get her laughing again. Because that’s really what I’m trying to do; I’m just trying to build a little bit of rapport, but mostly humor and keeping it interesting, keeping her excited to meet me, keeping her looking forward to it.

MICHAEL: Got it. Yep. Because I’ve been discussing with my buddy who studies the same stuff I do. He’s kind of like just don’t text at all, or maybe text back at night or something or let it go, like six to nine hours in between texts. I don’t know if that’s right thing to do to make her wait that long, but she’s asking me right now what I am doing today. I know she works today, but.

JAMIE:            So exactly, texting her is just trying to figure out how often and how not often?

MICHAEL: Well, kind of and what I’m texting. I feel like with what I’ve learned, I’m able to kind of like—I’m actually been able to really get girls excited. It seems like by texting, but they say you can’t do that and I’m not totally sure about that. I know texting them, you don’t want to be too available to them also, but I’m ramping up emotion by the things I’m saying like it’s a beautiful day today in my city. I would text her something like, you know that feeling you get when you are in a tropical beach? We have that today in our city. I might say something like that; right, just to get her thinking or whatever for a moment may be or whatever.

JASON: Tropical day. Yeah, I mean it’s just, again, you don’t want to be, oh today, I went to the store and got to shower and I ate a whole pizza and…


JASON: But if texting, let’s say, “How’s your day going?” “ Man, craziest thing happened.” “ Oh my god. What happened?” “I’m going to have to tell you in person, you’re not going to believe it.”  And you start creating those little moments of suspense. It could be about your knee getting scraped. And then she’s going to brand you in person. “So what are you talking about?” You are creating that like anticipation. So as long as you’re keeping it fun and interesting, I’d to say you’re okay, just don’t overdo it.

MICHAEL: Just tell her what happened this weekend. I’d say it happened yesterday like you’re saying, craziest thing happened yesterday.

JASON: Well, craziest thing happened last week.


JASON: It’s… I almost… when I text, I almost think about it as—I call it girl language. I don’t know if you noticed, but like girls conversations typically jump from one topic to another topic to another topic to another topic. So I kind of keep the texting the same where I’ll be joking about this thing and then I’ll automatically switch it to another topic. Those are ways I found if I have to keep texting that I can keep it interesting and funny. Sometimes I’ll even tested it and I’ll send one sided answers where I’m trying to end the conversation, and a lot of the times they actually continue to give input, and continue trying to keep the conversation going. Does that make sense?

MICHAEL: Yep, trying to like get them to carry it on.

JASON: Yeah, it’s almost like I’m trying to end the conversation. That’s just different thing but really all of it is done in person. You can really hook up with someone through text like, for me, I need the person in front of me to really…

MICHAEL:   No, it sucks, because she’s going to school for a vet and I can really only see her right now at this point one time a week almost straight.

JASON: Perfect! Does that answer—[CROSSTALK]

MICHAEL:   Yeah, pretty much. If I drop off, it’s because she’s calling or something. I might have a chat with her but—

CAPTAIN: Hey, is it okay if I ask you things?

JASON: Hm, yeah.

JAMIE: Yeah, yeah. Go for it, Captain.

CAPTAIN: Okay, perfect. So as far as like the whole texting thing, like Jason was saying, I usually like to talk on the phone and feel that stronger connection, but as far as texting, well I noticed that it works really well and is very effective, is like I’ll do hook points in. Like one of Jason’s hook points was like, you never believed what happened to me, or another hook point therein is like, I have a secret to tell you. You know what I mean? It’s kind of like, still along the lines of that you’re creating. Also, I like to vary my response time and that ties to the suspense like for instance, instead of texting her back a minute later, I sometimes texted her back a minute later then I’ll text her back 30 minutes later, and a minute later again, then an hour later, just varying times to keep her off balanced and to keep it suspenseful. Does that make sense?

JAMIE: Michael, are you still there?

MICHAEL: Yeah, oh, sorry. Yeah, that was awesome. I got a secret to tell you, that’s—to get some thinking, they love the suspense and that something that I’ve been really been learning to pick up on is this. Like last week, we have a few bit connecting emotion and like I’ve been working on that and it’s amazing when you’re connecting that emotion to you or even the suspense, it changes everything, It makes it so much easier to evolve at this. Thanks, man.

CAPTAIN: Amen, no problem.

JASON: Jamie, you have anything on these or…

JAMIE: One real quick on it, you know what I like to do, Mike, actually? I like to do voice text. Then you’re not obligated for a full phone call and neither are they, but at the same time what’s really great is they could hear your voice. So this value is really stupid boring stuff but it still sounds really interesting. I might have somebody that I have been talking for a few days and just to keep things going because my voice is like hey, “Happy Friday. Oh my god! What a beautiful-oh my god. What an amazing day today!” Just for that hearing my voice, makes something that might have been boring and makes it kind of interesting. Just because they can hear the way I’m presenting it, so I really voice text for that purpose just to keep things flowing. But the only thing to keep in my mind is unless, if that person is using an iPhone, they might not get that voice text, so someone should still do what’s that.

MICHAEL: Oh, yeah! Right. Right. `

JAMIE: All right, I think that is kind of a nice happy medium where it’s like I’m not overdoing text messages but I’m making sure that what I do send has value, you don’t have to be on the phone too much. I feel like that’s a nice kind of a way to keep things going. That’s it.

JASON: Yeah, actually, to add to that, I used a Snapchat and I send quick little like face video shots so that could be another thing to add. Because one thing you got to remember Mike, you’re spending all these time in texting but you see, I don’t know what you’re exact goal is but let’s say you have 6 or 7 people that you are talking to now. Do you really think you have time to be calling all those numbers and texting all of those numbers? It almost starts to be becoming like a job.


MICHAEL: It is a pain. And they text you back, who’s April? Or whatever, right? Knowing I had that happen, sending one text on the wrong person with a name in it.

CAPTAIN: That’s perfect, dude.

JASON: Okay, does that answer your question or do you have more?

MICHAEL: No, that really helps because I needed like I really… also what Jamie said by sending your voice in it to so you can practice what you say, and then you just fire it up, and send it off to her. It’s a great idea.

JASON: Okay, let’s go. Let’s see. So, Mike 2.

MIKE2: Let’s say you’re in sex, okay and there are a lot of guys and there’s one girl on it. And then, the girl with her friends introduces, “Oh, this is my boyfriend.”  Would you like continue gaining that girl in the hope of a like drawing attention or like maybe meeting on a female friend that you haven’t seen yet or stop gaming. I’m just talk away normally. I mean, eject?

JASON: Well, are you in the set already like…

MIKE2: Yeah.

JASON: So, you’re saying…

MIKE2: I’ll tell how. Last week I bumped into a girl I dated ten years ago. I personally gave up on her, she eventually introduced me to her boyfriend and there was me, her, four other guys in the group. And when she introduced me to her boyfriend I was thinking like, I am not going to do any game here because I sort of felt like she would see-through me. So, I guess the question is, whenever you’re in a set with someone like you found that they’re going with someone. Would you just continue gaming?

JASON: Well, if the guy is there and obviously that’s her boyfriend, and they seem like they’re good together, I don’t really want to get in the middle of that personally, like I don’t want to make some girl break-up with her boyfriend just because I’m trying to hook up. Other than…

MIKE 2: I was also thinking like, well, I’m not in a really good conversation here and I’m not drawing attention to myself. Makes that bring in another set where there’s women but I didn’t want to check in there like I’m flirty around when I got there.

JASON: The way I see it is like, why Mike, why would you put in all this effort in to girl that has a boyfriend when there’s plenty of girls around that don’t have boyfriends in there, more susceptible to talk or wherever want to take it. Does that make sense?

MIKE2: Yeah, well that’s what I was thinking but I was thinking I’m drawing attention here, I might be able to bring another set.

JAMIE:          Then you can just…

MIKE2: I don’t know. Grab a girl close by.

JASON: Yeah, then you can just run that group and just over the shoulder, open the other group and just merge yourself into that. And basically leave the group your with, if I’m understanding your situation right.

MIKE2: Yeah.

JASON: Because I mean why does it matter if that girl sees you talking to another girl, if she has nothing to do with you? You don’t owe her anything because you dated her 10 years ago.

MIKE2: Yeah. Right, okay. I’ll just can’t go merge and set it down to [inaudible 00:21:20] and scram and most tame enough.

JASON: Yeah, because I mean, if her boyfriend’s there, unless they are like to bring you in for some kind of kinky stuff or something like I don’t see it going anywhere.

MIKE2: All right, okay. The only question I’d ask—

JAMIE: Before you move on, Mike, before you move on, can I give you something else to think about?

MIKE2:         Yep.

JAMIE:          I’d actually encourage you to not just let all that great hard work just fall by the waste side, you do enough of this stuff. You’re going to meet people they’re involved but why let that energy just immigrate. If I meet a girl and she said, I had a boyfriend or whatever and I know it’s true, I mean like, which kind of cut a little bit but it’s like awesome, dude! Let’s have some fun together. Let’s meet strangers together, I will use her, as a momentum. I will convince her be my wing girl for the day.

So I will then turn her from, okay, cool. Okay, you need to clear where you’re at and I get it and I respect that so we’ll let’s have some fun together let’s meet new strangers, hey you’ll be my wing girl. You’re a good wing girl, right? You’ve got a good wing girl, that’s awesome. Go meet some strangers, open up sets in front of her. Get her to assist. Why let all that disappear? Bet you that’s a lot of fun, that’s what I’ll do. Like ask her, let’s have some fun together, let’s meet some strangers.

MIKE2: Yes, thank you for that man. I was thinking along those lines, I was also acting like Erich getting a boyfriend here and I’m talking her so much you know.

JAMIE: Yeah, I mean you never lose anything, it just got you to where you are. So, okay cool. The potential here is what it is. Let’s move in different direction. Why let it go? You can still live Jackson, really make some great things happen to yourself not with her directly or you can use her indirectly. It is just a shame because you have a girl there that will make it that much easier for you to open up other sets. That’s the thing. You’ve got a great access in front of you.

MIKE2: Yeah…

JASON: I mean…

JAMIE: I wouldn’t walk away. I won’t eject in fact it’s awesome.

MIKE2: The only hang ups I’d say, let’s say you’re right, you just stay, you just can’t… say I’m meeting your friend and all those great and start opening sets on your stay fold. We can’t hold your method on not getting a lot of heads this.

JAMIE: I’m not totally… I’m not sure of your question.

MIKE2: Like say you just state of fear and you just…

JAMIE:              Opening—breaking, to open sets you’re in a state of fear?

MIKE2: Yeah.

JAMIE: Oh, that is kind of factor with everything that we do, right? You just have to lie yourself straight. You know I can be afraid, I’m going to be rejected from time to time. Let’s just have some fun. I mean you’re almost—you’re actually pacing, you’re letting her know what you’re going to do, you’re just going to have some fun. Having fun and taking mysteriously don’t really coincide, they’re two different thing.  You telling the girl, hey let’s have some fun, let’s meet strangers together, you just told her you’re going to have fun together. You’re not telling her and take it seriously. You don’t give a sh*t what happens. Hey, you’ve talked to some groups just for the sake of doing it. You’re letting her know you’re just going to have fun so that alone should help kind of relieve you from the perceived pressure. You’re following me?

MIKE2: Yeah. That’s good.

JAMIE: Find a way to parlay it to her where you’re letting her know that let’s have some fun with some of the strangers here in this room. Present it to her in a way where you’re letting her know that you’re not going to take it seriously.

MIKE2: So, you just use those exact words like having date some people or something about the fact?

JAMIE: Yeah. I won’t say what we need from the people. Now you’re bringing in expectation, making it serous, oh my god, there’s an outcome. I wouldn’t say it like that, me personally. By the way, my choice of words or your choice of words, might be different. I want you to focus on the intention. Not the words, because my words, I’m going to choose different words than you might choose for the same intention. If my intention is just to have fun, if my intention is not to take these interactions too seriously, yet at the same time, open up some possibilities, I’m going to choose words to parlay it to the trend in a way that reflects what my intention is.

So my intentions in to have fun, just do not take them seriously to meet new people. Have a lack first, use something for shifting giggles. So that’s where I’m going to say to her. I’m going to choose my words, so I personally take some [inaudible 00:27:28] to meet new strangers but nothing to result too seriously. Let’s try to have some fun with some people here. That’s what I’m going to say and the nature of that is not serious. So any expectation is also not there anymore because I’m just letting her, I’m letting her know my words, let’s just enjoy ourselves. Let’s talk to some strangers, just for the sake of talking to some strangers.

MIKE2: Okay. Yeah.

JAMIE: I’m going to choose words that take away any serious undertones. I might choose the phrase, “Oh! Let’s have some fun here, let’s talk to some strangers. Let’s make some new friends here.” I’m not in any way implying, that anything needs to come out of it. Now I know my purpose is, I know what I’m trying to do, but I’m not hurling it to her that way.

MIKE2: Yeah. That’s sounds good.

JAMIE: There’s no pressure.

MIKE2: I was going to say, okay, listen to the audio back of the five seconds relieve.

JAMIE: Of the what?

MIKE2: The five seconds relieve.

JAMIE: Oh! Okay. What do you think?

MIKE2: Very good that you move me to tears.

JAMIE: Yeah, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 Go, it worked?

MIKE2: Yeah.

JAMIE: To anyone listening to this call, what we’ve referred to is the book we talked about in one of our last calls called, the Five Second Rule by Mel Robbins. Really phenomenal book. To be honest to everyone listening here, I highly, I’m very interested to supporting artistic people. But if you actually read the very final page in the book, it pretty much summarized it. You don’t even have to read the whole book. But it’s still good, interesting, but the very, very last page in the book pretty much tells you everything you need to know and it’s just a very easy technique to get out of your head and just do what needs to happen. So, it’s called the “Five Second Rule” by Mel Robbins.   So, that’s helpful to you, Mike?

MIKE2: Yeah. It’s excellent.

JAMIE: All right, I love you’re… you’re not at the last call but I thought that book, Courage: The Joy of Living Dangerously, was phenomenal. That’s from my favorite books of all time now. Really great book and I’d recommend it to anyone. I thought it was very helpful. I enjoyed it. Gave me just new tools and ideas that I can play with. Took a lot of really great notes from it. That was a phenomenal recommendation man. So thanks for bringing that to our call.

MIKE2: Yeah. No bother.

JASON: Okay, Mike, so do you feel good about those responses?

MIKE2: Yeah, yeah they’re excellent views. Sometimes I just don’t think about obvious things in unknown situations.

JAMIE: You know I don’t know about these things f***ing obvious. I feel like all these things are just from being involving yourself in these types of groups. I mean an anything I’ve told you, or Jason’s, I mean I can’t speak in behalf of Jason. So I know this, anything I’ve told you, came from someone else, so it’s not that obvious to me, man.

JASON: Yeah. Okay. So we’re going to go out Jay, and it looks like MB, logged in. So El, you have the rest of your question?

EL: I do. When I’m in a… there’s a four set that I open up on Friday and I couldn’t isolate or I did not know how to isolate one of the girls in the set. I didn’t have a wing. So in situation like that one, how do you isolate one of the girls if the group’s all enjoying your company and you want to talk to her; two, if you don’t get isolation, how do you go about asking the girl on a date in front of the group?

JASON: Okay. Typically four sets could be intimidating but what I’ve noticed is that more times than not they will split off. So, let’s say I open a four set. First of all they’ll all look at me, but then I’ll be directing my attention to maybe two of them or a lot of the times really it will end up with like two of them splitting off so it’s two and two. And then ones you hooked your target, the other friend will go into the set and it’ll let you just talk to your one target. Have you found that to happen?

EL: I forgot to mention that this is a set that are all seating in the grass and they were all focused on me. There was a point where a couple of them where talking together but then they got back to me.  I’ve notice that in other situation, yes. But in this particular situation I was like the focused of the entire attention. They were all interested, some of them were attracted, they were giving me their energy and they could not stop asking me question out of curiosity because they were really intrigued. And I wanted to talk to one girl specifically, but it was just like all of them were engaged with me.

JASON: So how did that interaction end?

EL: We actually—they had to leave the entire bar, the museum close down and they had to leave and go home. I wanted to go bounce them off to dinner, but it didn’t work out, so I didn’t ask for numbers but they wanted to meet up some of the time later. I guess we’ll see each other when we’re there.

JASON: Yeah, I could see in situations like that I had one where I couldn’t isolate so what I ended up doing is I grabbed everyone’s social media and contacted all of them. Yeah! Face book, Instagram, or even phone numbers. You know I’ve done it where I’ve grab like two or three other numbers  and then I started texting them, but whoever my main target is that’s the real person I focus on.

EL: Okay, that’s an excellent idea.

JASON: If you really can’t isolate, if you could isolate, other times I would done, “Hey, guys, I’m going to borrow your friends a really quick. I got to show her something.”

EL:  Do you—have you ever use, I’ve not used this and I just thought about it, have you ever used a statement of interest? Where you just basically show your intent like, “I really want to talk to… you mind if we talk together? When you told the girls that you want to talk to one of her friends, did they give you the space even though they might be sitting in the same spot?

JAMIE: “Hey, guys, I want to borrow your friends for a seconds, I want to show her something cool.” I don’t ask for permission, I just do it.

EL: Got it.

JASON: Like I almost be like, “Hey, guys, I got to borrow you friends for a seconds okay? We going to go look at something.” Something like grabbing her hand and trying to walk away with her. And if she doesn’t come then I’m just say like okay cool, and I kind of dismiss it and keep running the set. Does that make sense? But I’m still always trying to isolate or even if it was that seated set, and I would have make sure that I sat next to my target. That way maybe we can pull back out of the group a little bit and have like a one-on-one conversation where we are next to each other. Does that make sense?

EL: Okay, yes it does. I have another question on a different topic.

JAMIE: Let’s give everyone else the chance to ask to questions, too. You can come after those time, but we definitely have to allow them the time to kind of get there questions in time, okay?

EL: Sounds good.

JASON: Okay. Did you have any input before we move, Jamie?

JAMIE: Yeah, one good thing. Just another idea, I love Jason, that’s awesome. For everyone’s information we kind of-whatever. And then you kind of focused, it’s awesome. Here’s another idea to try. You can try doing this. I like doing this, I like giving the group to qualify my target. So I’d say, “Hey, what do you like about this girl?” So I will ask the friends, what they like about their friend, the one I’m interest in. I will get them to qualify her for me and also in a roundabout ways kind of alluding to where I’m going with it. Will stay in nine or ten, make sense?

EL: Yes, yes! That’s actually a good question.

JAMIE: That’s another technique. I mean whatever you feel comfortable with.

EL: Yeah, I actually like that a lot. What you like about this girl.

JASON: Okay.  Jay, and then “MP”.

JAY:     Hello!


JAY: Hey guys, how are you?

JASON: We’re doing good. How are you doing, Jay?

JAY:  I’m doing great, man.  Good information so far, great talk. I have a question on I’ve been going on a lot of dates, blah, blah, blah. And I see myself, part of my sticky point is I don’t want to fall into straight friend zone kind of thing and I don’t know like I want to be respectful of the person I’m taking out and not be like your typical guy just trying to get laid. Because I want to go comfort, right? But the same time I want them to know that I’m interested in them at that level so to speak, and not just as a friend, do you know what I mean?

JASON: Mm-hm.

JAY: I guess like last night I took a chick out and went to Tacos, and I rode a bike. I took her through the mountains and we had this great experience. Living in [00:38:26] to others like it’s gorgeous out here, right? Yeah, we had a great time. So were going out on a Wednesday, but like I didn’t—she told me all her experiences in dating. Not all, just a few of them and how it’s like always about hooking up and blah, blah, blah. I kind of backed off and I respect that and then I want to show her some respect, and show her it’s not just about that. Anyways, I just want her like because she mentioned that one point she’s like—I met her actually on Tinder, and she’s super cool. She got her shit all together, but she’s like everyone wants to hook up like basically they meet her and they just want to have sex. They were blunt about it, you know what I mean? And I go about it like any casual kind, cool way. They just—I guess that’s just what it is. And obviously, I don’t want to do that. But also I don’t want to fall into this friend zone thing.

JASON: Well.

JAY: And the cool friend, you know what I mean? So.

JASON: Well, Jay.

JAY: I guess it’s some kind of icky point, yeah?

JASON: What do you want?

JAY: I definitely want to hook up, but I want to build comfort so she’s comfortable. You know what I mean?

JASON: Mm-hm. So.

JAY: Yeah.

JASON: What I mean is what do you want? Obviously you want to hook up but let’s say why are you in this for? Are you trying to find a girlfriend eventually or you’re just trying to have a harem. What are you trying to do? What do you want?

JAY: A few good chicks that I can hang out with.

JASON: And have sex with, right? I’m assuming.

JAY: Of course, yeah.

JASON: Okay. So, let’s say—.

JAY: And it’s… I’m kind of successful the day before I had a girl over and it was fantastic, but you know. I need a lot of work. I’m always going to be learning I’d imagine.

JASON: Let’s say you hook up with this girl, right?

JAY: Right.

JASON: Then what’s going to happen?

JAY: Good point. I don’t know.

JASON:  Well, what do you wanted to happen?

JAY: I just want it to be fun. I don’t want it to be very serious. I want to enjoy my time; I  enjoy spending time with her. We’ve got a cool connection. She’s super. We vibe at the same level. I don’t know, nothing serious I don’t want anything serious right now, you know. It’s just where I’m at.

JASON: Can I give you the typical pattern that I have found that happens?

JAY: Sure!

JASON: Okay. Typically you’ve met someone right. There’s that initial-like happy feeling like, “Oh, this person is fun, I met someone new, this is exciting.” Whatever. Then you hook up and at the beginning it’s fun. It’s fun. You’re just doing cool things, you’re having sex, whatever. Two or three months into it, what do you think starts happening emotionally at least with the girl or maybe yourself, too.

JAY: It get bored.

JASON: Well, no, before that.

JAY: Or  [Inaudible 00:41:46] I would imagine.

JASON: She starts getting more attached, she starts to try to have more of your time, trying to steer—

JAY: Oh, yeah.

JASON: The relationship, trying to steer the interaction towards like boyfriend – girlfriend relationship, would you agree that’s typically what’s going to happen?

JAY: Yeah, for sure.

JASON: It’s really, you have to realize that if you’re going out and you’re doing this and you’re meeting women all the time, eventually  that conversation is going to pop up words going to be like, “ Oh, you know, so where is this going? What are we going to do?” And that’s when you have to figure out what you really wanted to do. Like if you come in with the mind set like, ”Okay, I’m going to date this girl, have fun with it and see what happens, versus like if you come in and you’re just kind of going through the motions, so when you get put on the spot and you’re like so what are we going to do? You freak out and you tell her that you’re going to be dating exclusively and you just put yourself in this bond.

JAY: Right. Yeah, you just put yourself in a corner.

JASON: The first thing is really knowing what you want, right?

JAY: Yeah!

JASON: And it seems like you just want to date openly or date around, right? Well typically what’s going to happen, see an interaction, you either have to escalate it or it’s going to die down, so you constantly have to be escalating or it’s going to die down.

JAY: Okay. That’s what—okay, I get totally what you’re saying .

JASON: Yeah, because it starts right if you don’t start KINO escalating and kissing her…

JAY: That’s it, Kino escalating, yeah.

JASON: You get pushed into the friend zone, right ? Technically.

JAY: Yeah.

JASON: So the same thing  with the interaction  if  you’re dating, hooking up, dating, hooking up, eventually  she’s going to realize  where is  this going,  are we just openly dating, are we boyfriend – girlfriend, like what’s happening ? Does that make sense?

JAY: Yeah.

JASON: So then, when you do get to that point, it’s going to be—what do you going to tell her?

JAY: I am not ready to settle down in that way honestly, because I’m trying to get my life together and are not that—I wouldn’t say that.

JASON: You know what, actually, I work a lot and I’m really focused on my goal and my task, so I can’t be in a relationship because I don’t feel like I’m going to be able give everything, and I don’t want to just have half-ass, you know what I mean, so it’s like if you want to continue spending time with me and enjoying each other, I would love to but if you want something more out of me that’s just something I can’t give right now.

JAY: That’s perfect. Yeah, exactly. And that’s my boundary right there. Exactly, and I stick with that, that’s exactly where I’m going for so to speak.

JASON: So if you have that in your head already, as you come again to that relationship, see I typically don’t stress out too much because I already kind of know that the relationship’s going to last two to three months and unless I’m really impressed  where I’m just like okay, you know I want to pursue something long with this girl , then I might make some rearrangements, some especial arrangement  for her.

JAY: So your default is what you just told me, and then if it’s like fantastic you’re going to readjust and then stir her towards that or yeah, I get it.

JASON: Yeah, because I mean really like the mindset here and I was having this, a few of us were having this conversation with but the whole scarcity and abundance thing, every time I meet someone like yesterday, I met this girl, it doesn’t mean too much, to mushy like texting me and its cool too, I get to go somewhere and I’m enjoying it, but really like until I have and a new friend of me, and were on a date and I’m seeing that their like into me, and we have sex that’s when they really become part of my life.

JAY: Right. I totally agree.

JASON: Because otherwise it’s just a friend that I—it’s just really an acquaintance that I just met and I’m like [inaudible 00:46:07]

JAY: Yeah. Exactly. I totally—

JASON: So that’s the relationship escalation. Once you have sex now you initiated this like relationship cycle, and in your head you’re like okay well this is where I want to take it, and unless something happens otherwise that I could take it there, this is where my boundary is.

JAY: Okay, I like it and that’s perfect.

JASON: Jamie, you have input on this?

JAMIE: Yeah, so, just to make sure, Jay, you’re original question was, when you go out on a date with a woman, then keep yourself from being friend zoned, that was the original question, right? I just had to make sure.

JAY: Correct.

JAMIE: Okay. So, there’s actually this great video, I don’t know if you guys have seen it, Actually it’s pretty awesome in its own way. There’s this video, it’s on YouTube. Jay, I want you to watch this you’ll like it.

JAY: Okay.

JAMIE: Titled, “How to get out of the friend zone”. Somebody f***ing shared it to me. It’s actually pretty good.  And you know what? It really, it says in a way that I think how relatable tone for most people. So, you don’t want to be friend zoned? So don’t talk like a f***ing friend. Not that complicated.

JAY: Yeah. That’s right! There you go!

JAMIE: Don’t be afraid, don’t be afraid, otherwise, whatever. Forget one that calls me out before, I think Jason and I are pretty straight forward with you guys. You know as human beings we make mistakes, how do you think we learn? We learn by having things not work out. Let me tell you something Jay, every time I don’t pull the trigger because I want to play it safe, I f***ing regret it.

JAY: Okay.

JAMIE:  I regret, I prefer that way more than a girl saying f**k you or like just getting mad at me for something.

JAY: Yeah.

JAMIE: The one thing you do is to be weak and to not go for it.

JAY: All right. Don’t be weak.

JAMIE: So watch this video, titled, “How to get out of the friend zone,” Just see that you have the right video. In the beginning you see a bunch of students coming from like in a college kind of setting. They all kind of talking, and then you see this guy walking to the front of them and he gives this talk. It’s very good. But basically this is exactly what is said. You don’t want to be friend zoned? Don’t f*cking talk like a friend. It’s pretty simple.

JAY:      Yeah. Okay

JAMIE: So watch that video, another thing is—oh, so the way we do that to make sure that we can’t be friend zoned is again, “don’t talk to her like a friend,” so in advance you’ll have these routines, sound bites that you say that are unmistakably not platonic sound bites. I’ll give you some example, some ones that I like to say. I might be in a conversation with a girl for like 6 to 7 minutes were I’ll be in a transition with being flirtatious with her and I might say something like, I like how you look at me. Do you think I’m going to say that to a friend?

JAY: No.

JAMIE: No, I might have a qualifier such as, are you a good kisser? You think I’d say that to a friend?

JAY: No.

JAMIE: By the way. It doesn’t mean that I might not get an IOD from her or she might rebuff that. That’s okay. I’m just telling you what you need to do.

JAY: Right, that way you’re not going along with it, just becoming whatever happens.

JAMIE: Yeah. You have to refuse to just go along with it. Okay, we’ll just be friends. You just don’t do that. Now the second part is, if you do get rebuffed or she does object your overture, then you’re prepared to handle that. I asked her if she’s a good kisser, and she says I’m not kissing you, I might not respond to the actual what she’s saying, yeah, someone’s not too confident in her kissing ability. I’m not necessarily directly addressing what she said, I’m more or less challenging her back for her weak answer. Make sense?

JAY:      Yeah. Exactly, because you’re not worried about yourself. You’re not feeding… you’re feeding her insecurities so to speak.

JAMIE: Right. So what you want to do is you want to have this sound bites routine prepared in advance, that’s what we do, by the way, we’re listing here, that’s why we do boot camps, to prepare you for this stuff.

JAY: Right.

JAMIE: You have these routines and sound bites that you use that are unmistakably not platonic.

JAY: Yes.

JAMIE: Now it might you get rejected all for that, it is inevitable that at some point in your interaction you’re going to go for something that she is going to object. That’s okay. That’s why you prepared these objection handlers. I just gave you one. So if I tell you are you a good kisser and she says I’m not kissing you, again I might say something like, like Erik passed on, I didn’t say you couldn’t, right?

JAY: Right. Okay.

JAMIE: That’s a fitting example. But you’ve prepared it in advanced. You don’t lie yourself to be in deer headlights… I don’t know what to say.

JAY: Right.

JAMIE: You already know what to say.

JAY: That’s fantastic.

JAMIE: And also, and this is after, I had, something happened to me that didn’t go very well, to be honest with you, just last week. And part of the reason why it did not go well was because I didn’t qualify hard. I didn’t challenge her as hard as I could. The first interaction was so f***ing good, that by the time I saw her the second time I just kind of assumed [Inaudible 00:51:30] and I took her for granted.

JAY: I got it.

JAMIE: So when she actually challenged me I wasn’t quite was in my mind ready to make it challenging for her. That was a good reminder for me by the way. You got it?

JAY: I got it. Yeah.

JAMIE: So you always need to be prepared to say phrases such as, “You know what, I don’t think this relationship is going to work out.” Get it?

JAY: Yeah.

JAMIE: Yeah. Those are the things you need to do. You start doing stuff like that then you can’t be friend zoned. It’s impossible.

JAY: You’re right!

JAMIE: You might get rejected, you might be rejected—

JAY: Right.

JAMIE: But she will not be confused where you’re going with it.

JAY: Exactly. And that’s what I normal—

JAMIE: And you simply just don’t allow, “Hey, we’re having friends war, I guess we’re not going to be anything. You don’t necessarily have to say that. Just do it.

JAY: Okay. Real quick, I’m looking for that video you said, and do you know what it looks like? There’s like a thousand of them.

JAMIE: Yeah, I couldn’t… here, this is what I click in the search. Get out of the friend zone. That’s exactly word for word of what I click.

JAY: All right.

JAMIE: When I put that in there, the very… let’s see here, the third video, it’s five minutes and thirteen seconds and then that one says, how to get out of the friend zone, it has this guy looking kind of away from him.

JAY: I’ve got five minutes and thirteen seconds.

JAMIE: Is he in front of like a chalkboard or something?

JAY: All right. Well, is there…

JAMIE: Again, I’ve been, for the search term, get out of the friend zone. Then the third thing—

JAY: That’s what I have, get out of the friend zone and I’m looking for it.

JAMIE: Everything in the search term says—how to get out of the friend zone, it’s five minutes thirteen seconds.

JAY: By Will Aime?


JAY: Is that it?

JAMIE: It’s five minutes and thirteen seconds, five minutes and twelve seconds?

JAY: Yeah. Five minutes and twelve seconds.

JAMIE: And they’re in the classroom?

JAY: Yeah.

JAMIE: There you got it.

JAY: Yeah, and they’re in the classroom, perfect. And it has subtitles.

JAMIE: Yeah. The message is unmistakably clear, Jay, you’ll enjoy the video.

JAY: Yeah. Thank you so much. I get it. Awesome.

JASON: Just a quick data to add to that, Jay.

JAY: Sure.

JASON: Exactly what Jamie was saying about having those statements of interest, I guess you can call them that. It’s really, for me I like to introduce to openly talking about sex. As soon as possible, just because for me it’s a qualification. So if she’s not comfortable talking about sex, right off at the beginning or at least after we built some comfort.

JAY: Sure.

JASON: She’s probably not going to be comfortable later on, you know.

JAY: Yeah. Right.

JASON: Also, the KINO, for me, we can have a boring best friend conversation but if I’m like making out with her and basically having sex, we can have whatever conversation she wants because my—and that comes like I met some girls that are really just are not very great conversationalist but—

JAY: Sure.

JASON: I could have been technically friend zoned from how boring the conversation was, but we’re having sex.

JAY: Right. I get it.

JASON: So those are some ways, you know and all you’ve been had—sometimes I’d throw in a DHV story of how something happened where I’ll talk about like sexual thing either one of my friends or myself, or something, just to see how she gets along with the story.

JAY: Okay. That’s cool. Yeah, that way you’re already talking—because I read somewhere where real important to throw out the idea of—it was something else about like texting is on line and it talked about it’s the same idea like you’re putting in the mind, you mentioned you know dates, and bringing up dates, like what’s your favorite date and you’re already planting the idea of going on a date instead of just talking simple texting for hours, which I don’t want to do. That’s if like you’re talking about sex then it’s more apt to—

JASON: For me it’s really efficiency like I’m trying to close this as soon as possible, I’m trying to isolate as soon as possible. When I close then we can get to know each other.

JAY: Right.

JASON: I don’t want to play the game of the girl possibly acting like a good girl because she saw traits in me that it’s something she wants so she doesn’t want to come off as this fun, playful woman anymore. Now she wants to come off as this like girl from potential girl. You know what I mean?

JAY: Yeah. Yeah.

JASON: I want to see that full range from her.

JAY: Honestly, I’m just too f***ing busy to be playing those games, too. Honestly. I just don’t have time. I want to hang out with hot chicks and have fun and I just don’t have time to dick off.

JASON: Yeah.

JAY: You know what I mean.

JASON: Yeah. Exactly. So does that answer your question?

JAY: Yeah, totally. I was unclear. Honestly, man, I haven’t dated in ten years, so this is all new sh*t to me. It’s f***ing rad, and I’m having a blast, honestly, this program rocks, and I would not be here if it wasn’t for you guys, so, know that.

JASON: Appreciate it.

JAY: Know you guys are doing good, too. For us. So thank you.

UPGRADE: Is it okay if I add something really quick, Jason?

JAY: Sure!

JASON: Yeah, and then we got to get to MB.

UPGRADE: Okay. This is going to be really quick. Have you ever heard of Warren Buffett?

JAY: Yeah.

UPGRADE: Okay. Well, once he talks about his friend, one of his friends, I forget the dudes name. He says, famous quote by him is, all I want to know is where I’m going to die so I’d never go there. Have you ever heard of that quote?

JAY: No.

UPGRADE: Well, basically it relates to us, too, because basically he’s saying it’s easier to stay out of trouble than get out of trouble. And that relates to the friend zone as well. It’s easier to stay out of the friend zone than get out of the friend zone.

JAY: Right. So don’t go there.

UPGRADE: Definitely. So always be clear in your intent, man.

JAY: Be clear in your—yeah, exactly. I love it. Perfect. Thank you.

JASON: Okay. So, MB?

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