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TAY 183 : How to prevent self-sabotaging and continue the momentum

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Today’s podcast we discussed how to build off the momentum from a good date without self-sabotaging. We also reviewed how to keep your frame when you are being challenged by a woman or she is trying to label you. Also, we discussed the proper time to use longer DVH stories.


RON: Made it before and I just couldn’t really force myself to do it so, but recently I’ve got this new app. It just came out called Tinder, and I’ve kind of have lots of fun in there. Yeah. Have you guys ever heard of that before?

JAMIE:            Yeah.


JASON:           Just like how Facebook just came out.


RON:   But, yeah. You know I ended up meeting with one girl. It went really well. She’s super hot in my opinion you know. Biggest boobs I’ve ever seen and hey that—you know we had a good date, good conversation. I ended up kissing her and I felt so pumped afterwards it really just kind of sparked that motivation in me so I decided to come back on the goal. But at this point I’m really, you know I’m just kind of course trying to be myself but I’m not sure how to really set the stage for the next thing. It’s been about a week. We went out last Sunday. We’re still texting back and forth kind of intermittently and I’m just trying to think how do I not come off too aggressive well at the same time not losing the energy from what we set up on the first date. And so I guess that’s probably something I’d like to talk about today.

JASON:           Okay, so my question, you said it had to be you, right? Were you on the first date?

RON:   Yeah.

JASON:           Then what would stop you from continuing to be you if you saw that pattern worked well for this interaction?

RON:   Well, I just feel like I keep telling myself I’ve never got met like this kind of a girl. I mean I’m used to more the I don’t know, studious type that’s not super outgoing and popular. She’s kind of a partier. Obviously, she’s quite popular with the guys and I guess I just keep telling myself like yeah, why would she like a guy like me? I’ve never been kind of accept by this type of girl. I’m kind of a nerdy guy. I stay at home and I work, and I read and I’m not like the really the outgoing party type. And I just feel like in scared off with that personality so I don’t know. I know it’s in my head and also I’m not really sure how those types of girls think. Are they waiting for me to chase them and be aggressive and try to tie them down or am I supposed to kind of hang back and wait for her to come to me because I know she’s got probably a bunch of guys chasing her.

JASON:           Wait, so you haven’t hooked up with her and you’re already trying to tie her up?

RON:   No. No. All we did was kiss. And then—

JASON:           That was a joke. Because what I’m—remember that the interaction, right? Even if you’re calling yourself nerdy or whatever, intellectual, a lot of the times this is attractive. But not too much of it and all the time.

RON:   Yeah.

JASON:           So I’m cold reading here but I’m sure in your date you were able to keep it fun and then go into something kind of nerdy and intellectual and then keep it more fun again.

RON:   Yeah, I mean it was—it seemed totally natural and we laughed a lot and we got along just fine and I felt really good after it. But I don’t know, it’s just like were… it’s a… I’m not sure how to get to the next chapter, I guess.

JASON:           Well, you already kissed her, right? You went on a date? What would come—

RON:   Yeah.

JASON:           What do you feel would come next?

RON:   Well, obviously, I’d have to set something else up next, you know, whatever that might deal. Try to figure some ideas. But you know I’ve kind of tentatively, well not tentatively, but I did invite her out on Thursday just to go grab some food in a restaurant and said I’m going, and she was probably studying, which I knew, so whatever. And then I tried again today but forgot its Mother’s Day, she’s out with her mom. And that’s already a few times I’ve asked and I feel like if I keep pushing, maybe I’ll come across to seem desperate.

JASON:           Yeah. So I can give you an example. Same thing happened. I met a girl Friday; I was trying to get her out that same Saturday. She had like a… was it I guess some cousin was visiting from New York or something and she couldn’t go out which is a legitimate reason. I’m just kind of back way a little bit. Maybe she would send intermittent texts like you were saying, you know keep building the attraction and the flirtation, and then kind of throw it out there again. Remember her going on a date it’s a compliance test, right.

RON:   Yeah.

JASON:           So if she didn’t go through the test, you might have to build back a little bit, build a little bit more attraction and then come back at it. Now also the excuses seem pretty legitimate excuses, would you agree?

RON:   Yeah. That’s why I totally understand and I am kind of I don’t text her every minute, you know, it’s only a couple of times per day as that. So I am trying to give her the space and you know focus on my own stuff at the same time.

JASON:           Know what?

RON:   I also don’t want the energy to die out.

JASON:           Now another thing how would you be acting if this was your, you know your first most attractive girl you’ve met versus you had another two or three that you were already talking to?

RON:   Yeah, then I’d be just kind of keeping tabs you know checking in. Nah, it wouldn’t be such a big idea, a big deal, I mean?

JASON:           Yes, so, do you think it would be a smart thing to kind of handle this from that mind state versus the total scarcity; I’m not her regular type. She’s probably getting hit on by a lot of other guys, blah, blah, blah mindset. What do you think would be the best mindset to deal with this?

RON:   I mean, I think my best mind set is hey, I already got more than I expected. This is pretty cool. I’m learning, I’m experiencing it, anything. I know, I know. Exactly, but anything. She motivated me. I went out Friday; I had a great time and now I’m ready to start out learning again so, something positive did come out of it.

JASON:           So…

RON:   I did just I kind of try to push it as far as possible.

JASON:           Yes. It’s really like for me; I like to really look at everything as like a wind in the moment. Like what could I do in this moment? Does that make sense? So it’s like if she’s not in front of me moment, I can’t do anything as far as inducing her moving the interaction forward. I could text and what not. So texting, I’m now in the moment of texting. Does that make sense about that being in that moment?

RON:   Yeah. I think I get what you’re saying.

JASON:           Well basically I’m not going to sit here and worry about this girl that I met Friday. I’m not going to sit here and worry about what she’s doing until  she comes back into my world so I’d last send her a message, she hasn’t text me, so I’m doing my own stuff taken care of, my stuff, maybe talking—

RON: Oh yeah.

JASON:           Maybe doing this thing where until she becomes relevant in my presence, then all my focus goes on her and what I’m doing with that interaction.

RON:   Yeah. For sure.

JASON:           That kind of hits on like the mind set, the abundance slash, like you have your own goals mindset mixed with the actual technique is, you know, shoot her—I use like funny meme text, like if let’s say I reply and she doesn’t reply in like a day or two, I’d shoot her like a funny meme text and really, if you think about it, we keep coming back to this concept. But it’s the whole marketing fun or concept, where you’re texting five set of girls at the same time and that’s like one level of it, you go on a date, the date move up to another level. You’re going to go out on a date with these three girls. Okay, I went on a second date and hooked up with one of the girls are ready, so now she moves into this other category. And its once you get that set up in place it’s really like everyone you’re meeting  you’re just kind of feeding into that fun where that where you don’t feel that anxiety of am I going to lose this set? This is the best girl I’ve met so far. What’s going to happen?

RON:  Yeah.

JASON:           Or you could assure is that you did your best and that it was a good learning experience.

RON:  Yeah. I guess this is about keeping the pipeline full.

JASON:           Yes. And the way you act when the pipeline is full.

RON:    Yeah. I   guess I’ll just get to keep going. You said you know. I guess text her every once in a while. I guess I’ll try again in a few days.

JASON:           Yes.

RON:  And if not I will decide to cool off.

JASON:           Yeah. And remember it’s just pings, dude. I see it as like throwing pebbles. Every time, I just kind of throw a pebble—

RON:  Yeah.

JASON:           To catch her attention and if she doesn’t respond to it cool, if she does cool. It’s very… if you throw a pebble you don’t depend on someone to catch it and throw it back to you. But if it catches their attention and they look, then that’s the outcome you were going for.

RON:   I think another; the thing that I struggle with is why am I trying to prove myself to her? Like I just feel weird you know, like if I text her she takes long to respond and I mean she does and at the same time I don’t want to be groveling for somebody’s attention like… Please bite me. I mean it’s like no, no. You should come to me or else I go find somebody else. I don’t know if that’s a bad attitude, is that arrogant, or I don’t know.

JASON:           Well, does it feel like you’re groveling?

RON:   I mean I definitely don’t grovel nor do I make it seem that way at least in my mind, but I guess that narration in my mind it’s telling me like, why do I allow it just to try to get her attention? I don’t know. Maybe it’s a little bit arrogant.

JASON:           Yeah. Because I mean up to a certain point as the male, we do have to take action and move the interaction.

RON:  Oh, yeah.

JASON:           You know. So accepting that part but you know again if you have a plethora of women waiting for you, do you really think it’s going to trigger those groveling responses? Or is it going to be more like…

RON:  Yeah.

JASON:           I don’t know, man. I’m just kind of going through the motions of my regular day life and see where it goes. You know so I mean in a sense, you’re putting in a level of effort but you’re also, you got to know where your boundaries are. Where it’s like okay, am I now basically paying her for my attention? Paying her for her attention, really that’s to me what groveling kind of sounds like. Putting in—

RON:  Yeah.

JASON:           Putting in too much and not getting enough output.

RON:  Exactly.

JASON:           Jamie, do you have?

JAMIE:            Yeah. I have a few things. I’ve been taking some notes here. First of all I say to anyone listening to this call here, having the opportunity to get this kind of feedback is the only way you are ever really going to learn how to do this. So if you guys are enjoying listening to this call, you know come to Venusian Arts. Check our VIP program, threw in an opportunity to get those types of feedback mechanisms ultimately take you to that next step because the promise no one learns this just from reading books and the reason for that is because books don’t talk back to you. It’s if you’re working your own little silo, you’re not going to know you are doing wrong. It’s these types of interactions that allow you to kind of calibrate what you’re missing, what you are not interpreting correctly. So, have you, if guys have any questions feel free to contact us going through the Our number is 7026062232. And so, Ron?

RON:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            So a couple of things I want to mention, I think are worth mentioning. So one thing you said was you want to, you’re kind of struggling with whether or not to become come across as too aggressive, right?

RON:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            Right. So now, let me ask this question. Whose job is it to escalate, yours or hers?

RON:   I definitely think its mine and I’ll escalate further depending on her reaction but well, yeah. That’s my answer.

JAMIE:            It’s her; it’s your job, right? We agree?

RON:  Yep.

JAMIE:            So you have to do it. It’s about how you do it. And whether, whatever, regardless of her reaction, like if it’s not good, like she kind of like hey, are you a good kisser? She’s like, I’m not kissing you. The key is, is just to be nonreactive. And come right back at it maybe after ten minutes later and hey, on a scale of one to ten, how good of a kisser are you? You just keep persisting. I had many women that even for the first part like a kiss, they turn me down twice. But I just keep getting back at it in a playful way. But you have to, first things first, to wonder a question like I don’t want to come across as too aggressive. It’s, that’s, or try just not escalating. It’s your job to do that. She’s not going to do it for you, so just accepting that pretty much gives you your answer. The difference is you want to do it in a way that’s playful where you give her kind of that pause with deniability. For example, there are different types of escalating. There’s escalating that’s physically but there is also escalating logistically. So you find playful ways to do it. Hey, if I let you take you home do you promise to feed me? Right? She f***ing knows what’s going to happen if she takes you home, but you’re make it sound like you’re just going there for dessert or coffee or something, you following me?

RON:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            Jesus, you’re not coming home with me tonight, you say, why, is it too early in our relationship to have a meal together? You’re being playful with her but you’re still escalating, you see?

RON:  Yeah, yeah. So…

JAMIE:            So it’s your job to keep escalating. It’s the way you escalate that makes it seem playful and fun. Like if I go, are you a good kisser? And she goes, can I kiss you, I might say, I just wanted to see how confident you are in your kissing abilities, that’s a fail, I’m just being playful but I’m still escalating. And then I’ll come back at it again and maybe 5 minutes later in some other way. You following me?

RON:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            So the only difference between appearing aggressive versus not, when the reality is you are still aggressive is just how you are coming across. You are come across persistent. A playful, nonreactive, she’s not going to leave a lot as aggressive behavior, but I say it is. It’s just pretty persistent behavior. And that’s really what you want; you need to be very persistent. You can’t be rattled by any s*** tests she throws your way. That’s why you prepare ahead of time with your routine stack. But maybe we just change the words for you so you’ll feel more comfortable with it. You don’t necessarily need to be aggressive, or you need to be persistent and not take no.

RON:  I like that.

JAMIE:            I mean no means no, like to anyone listening, no does mean no. You just keep trying until she tells you in whatever way, get the f*** out of here. I’m kidding. But be consistent. Okay?

RON:  Okay.

JAMIE:            Is that helpful?

RON:  Yeah. Definitely. I like it. I’m going to do that.

JAMIE:            It’s your job. That’s actually part of what will make her attractive to you. One of the most attractive things is a guy who pulls the trigger, a guy that’s willing to be edgy and is willing to kind of make things happen. That’s very exciting and attractive to her. And again, it’s in her nature to kind of challenge you and s*** test you, but at the end of the day she likes that stuff because she doesn’t like f***ing Mr. Timid guy, I promise you. I was just talking to a girl last night telling me how she went on this f***ing wonderful date but in the end she wasn’t attracted to him.

I’m like, all things sound so wonderful to me, I’m like what do you think was missing? She said, yeah, he was just really timid. He didn’t do anything. He was very romantic, he was very courteous, but I’m not attracted to him. Well why is that, Ron? He’s not pulling the trigger. He’s not willing to put himself out there. He’s not willing to be persistent. He just wants to play it safe. And on that note, I want to tell you something that I’ve learned over and over and over and over and over again. Every time I’d played it safe, I’ve gone slapped in the f***ing face. You following me? It is always been a very clear message. If you think you can get a kiss and you decide to play it safe and not go for it, you will, that is always a mistake; Always. Because the more you build attraction, the more you build some level of intimacy, connection, whatever you, the more of an experience you can give her to make you memorable, the more solid it becomes for her. Where like, wow, I shared all these experiences with this guy, and if you cut yourself short because in your head oh, I don’t know, I’m just going to play it safe here. You will regret that.

RON:   Oh. Okay.

JAMIE:            You following me?

RON:   Yeah. I’m following.

JAMIE:            In the worst scenario, even if it doesn’t work out, you’re going to have an experience. And one of the things I really love about what you said is, I love that you’re actually,  you’re almost seem more focused on the fact that she’s kind of giving you back your kind of mojo. Where you’re like, you know what, with anything, I’m just excited to be out there being enthused again. So that’s actually the right attitude. So even if you fail, you win. Just like Conor McGregor says, either you win or you learn.

RON:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            Don’t play it safe. Don’t play it safe. You go for it as much as you can. That’s one of the reasons why we’re asking the classic routine style. Like hey, so where are you off to? What are you doing? Who are you here with? You are trying to find out what’s possible. But if anything, if there are no barriers in the way, you go for it as much as you can. You try and give her as much of an experience as you can because that’s what’s allowed you to really—that’s what’s going to allow her image of you to really stick.

RON: Okay.

JAMIE:            Right? So don’t get—don’t play it safe. Every time I’ve done that it’s always been a mistake.

RON: All right.

JAMIE:            The irony is playing it safe—when playing it safe, you will fail.

JASON:           I agree.

RON: Yeah. Good stuff.

JAMIE:            You think about it. If we’re trying to parlay high value behavior; high value guys doesn’t play it safe, high value guys like I’m f***ing going for it all. Let’s f***ing bet it all on black, red, whatever. He’s living that life, he’s taking chances, he’s investing, he’s doing those types of things. He’s not concerned he can find someone else. Think about it. By you playing safe with one girl what you’re really saying is oh, my god, she’s so special. I don’t know if I can duplicate that again. Are you following that? That’s a problem.

RON: Yeah. Yeah.

JAMIE:            But if she’s not any…  if she’s not a special flower like any… if she’s just if you really feel you’re a high value guy, with lots of options, why the f*** would you play it safe then? That makes no sense. So again, the irony is by you playing it safe you’re f***ing yourself. Because other type of behaviors come out… that thought brings with it low value behavior.

RON: Definitely.

JAMIE:            That’s the problem. But overall—

RON: Yeah.

JAMIE:            The main outcome you got from this lady, this girl who’s f***ing awesome because you’re invigorated and you’re looking at this the right way like no matter what I’m back in, I can’t wait to have more experiences so its great. But just think about that. Let me see if I have anything else for you. So okay, I heard you say, I’m a nerdy guy. You’re not a nerdy guy, Ron. Nobody is a nerdy guy. There’s nerdy behavior, there’s low value behavior, there’s high value behavior. But saying you’re a nerdy guy or anything would like a true label to it, that’s just a label or story. You’re not any of those things. You’re, you just… just because you demonstrate some type of negative behavior, nerdy behavior, doesn’t mean you’re that kind of guy. It just means you just exhibit that behavior. That’s very important to distinguish. Because when you start labeling yourself and creating this identity that’s not even f***ing real, identity is one of the powerful things in your life because when you decide to identify yourself away from the psychological standpoint, you’re going to psychologically try and remain consistent with that identity. So for example if I’m Ron, and I’m a nerdy guy, I’m going to look to do more nerdy things to reaffirm that I’m a nerdy guy. You following me?

RON: Yep.

JAMIE:            Don’t do that. You don’t want to do that. You are not a nerdy guy. That’s a story, that’s a label, that’s an identity you’re creating for yourself. It’s not real. That identity is just based on old past persona. There’s nerdy, it might be, or you’re going to say I’ve exhibited nerdy behaviors, or I’ve done nerdy actions, low value actions. But that’s in the past. That does not define you. Be careful about of how you describe your identity. If you’re going to identify yourself, then identify yourself in a more powerful ways. But using you’re a nerdy guy, that’s actually not true. Makes sense?

RON: Yeah. It makes sense.

JAMIE:            Okay. I mean people; I mean it is such an important point to bring home like people will try to be consistent with how they decide to identify themselves.  That person, we all knew this person. Nothing ever good happens to me. That’s your identity. You’re trying to get sympathy; you’re trying to get other things from that identity that nothing good happens then. I never feel good. It’s just an identity. For some reason that identity have served them in ways, but that’s… but how can they identify themselves? They’re just going to look for more proof from the universe that’s who they are. But the problem in that is that you’re just going to attract more s***ty things. So start to identify yourself in much more powerful ways and you’ll get much more, you know, you’ll get much more of what you’re looking for. Again, I just want you to differentiate between past negative behaviors versus what your identity is. Is that clear?

RON: Yeah. Yeah. That’s clear.

JAMIE:            Okay. Let me see if I have anything else. That’s it. Awesome, man.

RON: Yeah. Very good advice. Thank you. Both of you.

JASON:           Just to add one thing before we move on. I actually use nerd or nerdy guy as a joke. This would be maybe like in the comfort phase where we joke around and I’ll come in like, you know what? I’m actually like a freaking nerd like I read and s***. I’d deliver it in a way where I’ll almost come off as like dumb, but it’s also funny because I’m saying I’m intelligent. You know? And then, from there, I could transition it to like, oh, you know? I was actually like reading blah, blah, blah or some of kind like factual thing where I want to break that me being let’s say I’m being funny, I want to cut that now and I want to show a different aspect of my personality, then I can cut and actually almost like make fun of myself in a way like, you know what I’m actually like a freaking nerd, like I read and shit. So that could be a way to actually use it to your advantage, too.

RON: Right. Right.

JASON:           I see Gus with a lot of s’s signed on. Is… so we have one more caller and Paul is next.

JAMIE:            All right.

PAUL:  Hello. Are we here?

JASON:           Hey, Paul.

PAUL: Hi. I guess quick question. I’ve been kind of talk to you but I’m still very new with this. I’ve been trying to talk to people and I guess you know kind not seem needy and kind not seem, I guess for the lack of a better word, nerdy. Like you guys were talking about earlier but what’s, I don’t want to cross the border or the line and become arrogant. What’s the, I mean how do you know if you’re going overboard? If I make sense.

JASON:           You know that’s a problem because do you think what I think as arrogant would be different than what you think is arrogant?

PAUL: Yeah. Of course it’s an opinion. Yeah. And what a girl might think is arrogant is going to be even different to what we think is arrogant.

JASON:           Yeah because you know with that confidence could get mistaken as arrogance. Would you agree?

PAUL:  Correct. Yeah.

JASON:             Where to me personally, confidence is when you don’t need to prove it and arrogance is where you have to like prove it and make sure everyone knows. That is my personal take on it. So.

PAUL: Because my understanding is you know, confidence is attractive but arrogance is not attractive.

JASON:           So—

PAUL: And I’m just, I’m sure I haven’t gone to the arrogant stuff point yet, but I just want to make sure I don’t –you know, I just want to if I’m getting in that direction to stop myself and maybe back off or…

JASON:           Yeah, because you know,  one thing that’s going to be the calibration that you’re getting from people, I usually find that my cocky, funny humor is making everyone around me laugh and have a good time, so then to me I could continue being that level of cocky, funny, arrogance. But then if I start noticing that people are like not having a good time or I’m losing sets or I’m pissing people off, would you say that’s, those would be some queues that I’m being arrogant?

PAUL:  Yeah, of course. I’m, yeah.

JASON:           So then –

PAUL: I mean what happened to me is I actually had—I don’t know if she was joking or she was serious, but a girl, actually called me arrogant and I just kind of, you know, it’s just kind of got me thinking. I didn’t think I was being, I mean I don’t really remember what happened exactly now but I honestly don’t think I was being in my opinion, but maybe, you know, it just got me thinking that maybe I need to back off a little or I don’t know, that’s why I’m kind of asking you.

JASON:           You know what you said?

PAUL: I got I just forget now you see it was a few weeks ago. I think it was just in a conversation and she’s kind of told to me afterwards but…

JASON:           Yeah.

PAUL: I have never really been an arrogant type of person so I thought maybe; I don’t know I mean I just want if there is any way to kind of gauge where I’m going with it?

JASON:           Yeah. I mean engaging wise you really have to base it off with people’s interactions, but you could have some calibration where you know if you’re walking around saying like, man, I’m lay the best person in this bar. F***everyone. And you’re telling that to people, you say that’s arrogance or confidence?

PAUL:  Kind of arrogant I guess.

JASON:           Yes. See there’s some that are like clear markers but really you’re going to have to go out there and allow yourself to be you. And if people don’t like it, they’re going to start backing away. And a lot of it has to be calibrated where you’re acting in a certain way and in text, the more attractive to people without the fact you are able to be confident, you have your boundaries, so I think this really transitions more into how I can be more confident rather on how can I stop being more arrogant.

PAUL:  Okay. Yeah. It kind of goes back to before then. Yeah. Okay.

JASON:           So now your job would really be what do you consider confident and what do you think people around you consider confident and how can you add those traits to your person and be calibrated where it’s not going to be misconstrued as arrogant. And if it is by one person, I’m okay with that. If it is being misconstrued by ten, fifteen people that could be a problem.

PAUL: Right. Yeah, no. It’s nowhere there. It just kind of pop in my mind and I thought I’d rather not head in that direction, so that’s all. I’m just trying to beat it before it happen.

JASON:           Now when you are being arrogant did you feel good at that moment? Kind of like you can say…

PAUL: I didn’t think I was being arrogant, that’s the thing. I don’t remember what it was but I’m not the kind—I am the kind of personality of an arrogant type of person so I wouldn’t thought that I was being.

JASON:           But would you say you felt good like you were in the moment, you were being talkative, you are in the state and something just kind of get out—

PAUL:  Yeah.

JASON:           And came out?

PAUL:  Unfortunately, I guess. Yeah I did.

JASON:           So then, if everyone else around you enjoying it or having a good time, but this one girl found it arrogant, would you say it’s something you should try to change right away or maybe just kind of—

PAUL:  No. It’s probably her that needs to change, I guess. If she’s the only one.

JASON:           Yeah. I’ve pissed off a lot of girls but then other girls would be the exact same material would love me for it.

PAUL:  Okay .

JASON:           To—just one quick thing and then Jamie could give input too, but for me part of the way I act is also a screening mechanism for the type of girls that I want and I’m going to get along with. So if I might be a little too much for one girl, she might be a little too little for me.

PAUL:  I get you. Yeah.

JASON:           Jamie, you want to input?

JAMIE:            It’s actually a very interesting question, I kind of like it in some way. Here’s what I’ve come up so far. As far as being confident and not arrogant, I think the formula for that would be confidence plus being humble. If you’re confident but you’re humble. I don’t think you can really come across as arrogant. I’ll explain why. Because if you’re confident, as what per Jason said, that means you don’t need anyone’s approval. So by definition you’re confident. Like I know my position, I know myself and no one’s going to tell me differently. That’s confidence. Do we agree on that, Paul?

PAUL:  Yeah. For sure.

JAMIE:            Awesome. But if I’m humble I understand at the same time I’m not perfect. And I don’t take myself too seriously and I might be wrong from time to time and you know what? I might say something, dare I say even stupid. Well, my guy, that wasn’t good. I’m just going to exit now. It’s kind of like everyone’s wrong for example, I find myself telling, about to tell a story, right? And I can see myself pretty well just say, pretty good at that. But every once in a while or so, I’ll find myself in a situation or I’m about to tell a story and I will stop and say, you know what? I’m going to cut that one now because that’s not going in a very good direction. You know, I know already that story is not going to add value to people and it’s… and I kind of almost poking fun of myself, but not as a routine. I’m just really like you know, that’s just not a good story, I’m just going to —and cut you know. So if you’re confident and humble, well you’ll realize you’re not perfect. You won’t even poke fun at yourself perhaps. Not in a way were your, not in a way where you think less of you self, but just like, dude, I’m not perfect. I think that combination can never come across as arrogant. You following me?

PAUL:  I guess also like modest. Humble? Modest?

JAMIE:            Modest I think… modest I think is a little different. Modest is like you know, I made million of dollars, I mean actually modest but I’d still take advice from you, Paul. I could be hey, I have a million dollars and you start to say, why Jamie, have you thought about investing your…. You know that’s cool, thanks anyway, Paul. I’m good. You understand? So I think just because you’re modest doesn’t mean necessarily you’re humble.

PAUL:  Okay .

JAMIE:            You’re following me? And by the way I will be humble when I say, this is just my own personal interpretation. This, you might find so much better answer that I have. I think what occurred now, she’s in coaching for example, right. Like you know, if you listen to a lot of these and  you know you haven’t done to me this so far, but if you listen to a lot of these calls, I say very clearly when I, at these calls I’m not perfect. I make mistakes. I’ve never ever tried pulling myself as some kind of a you know, it’s a lot of perfection. Like I’m always a student learning. As a matter of fact as you listen to calls, I have had many calls where I will get, I will actually get some type of suggestion from well the clients, and I would like you know that’s actually very f***ing good. As a matter fact, I think three to four books I’m reading right now we’re all recommended from clients. So—

PAUL:  Okay.

JAMIE:            Now, what I’m trying to tell you is basically this, and like even Jason is on a call here. Dude, I’ve taken many coaching suggestions from him. He’s actually done like NOP sessions me for example. He say, you just help me with other stuff of my life like I love f***ing learning . Tony Robbins is a great example. That guy is good, he’s literally an expert and a zillionaires but guess what Paul, he’s not afraid to be in the front row at someone else’s seminar taking notes. You see the difference.

PAUL:  Sure. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

JAMIE:            But it doesn’t mean that he’s any less confident on who he is and what he can offer people.

PAUL:  Right. He is not a know it all. I guess.

JAMIE:            Yes. He’s not a know it all. Like if I meet a girl and I’m not her cup of tea, I critique note it. But I’m not going to let her affect what I think about myself. I understand that there are variables there that I can’t control you know. Maybe it’s logistics, maybe it’s her mood. I’m not going to let her in anyway put a damper on my personal opinion of who I am and how confident I feel with what I can do. But at the same time I’m not for everybody and I legitimately might not be the guy for her and that’s okay. I’m willing to let her go.

PAUL:  Okay.

JAMIE:            Does that make a little more sense?

PAUL:  Yeah. Definitely makes sense.

JAMIE:            So if you’re confident then—

PAUL:  Thought what I was doing actually so…

JAMIE:            What’s that?

PAUL: I actually feel better I was, I’m actually feel like I was… actually I was  going in the right direction, I wasn’t doing anything wrong, so I actually feel better now.

JAMIE:            Yeah. If you’re confident and humble, you know who you are, no one’s going to change your opinion of you and the way you see the world, at the same time you don’t need to be perfect. You know if your story didn’t hit, okay. Lesson learned and maybe we’re not going to work out happily ever after. That’s okay. Like that’s just that’s a level of where I don’t think you can really ever be perceived as arrogant unless the girls want to say that for the sake of saying that. Some girls will say that for the sake, some girls would say that as kind of a defaulting, oh you’re so arrogant. When they haven’t really thought about really what that, a better adjective, which might be a better one that could be used in there rather than arrogant. They just kind of threw that out there. So maybe not take them always so literally, but—

PAUL:  Yeah. Maybe I was just being sensitive.

JAMIE:            That’s okay.

PAUL:  Yeah.

JAMIE:            Let’s see here.

CASSIDEN:  Is it okay if I add some few things?

JAMIE:            Absolutely, Cassiden. And so let me just say one last thing, Cassiden. I’m kind of throw this you. So Cassiden is one of our junior coaches so he’s going to be giving some feedback from time to time. One thing I want to mention before Cassiden goes is, to anyone listening to these calls, well, we have our VIP cruise coming up. And for anyone who’s really looking really take themselves in the next level, not just pick-up but in life, we really work on those like next steps. If you’re already level of intermediate for example, but you’re really looking to truly internalize these action-behaviors, you know for every avenue of your life, you’ll probably want to contact us because that cruise is going to be a really awesome way to really supercharge what you’ve been learning. So feel free to hit us up. Anyway, go ahead, Cassiden.

CASSIDEN:  Perfect! Also something that I like to do myself because I can come off extremely confident sometimes. So what I would do is I will kind of like uplift others. You know what I mean?

PAUL:  So say something to make them feel better?

JASON:           Yeah. Yeah.

CASSIDEN:  Right. Because—

JAMIE:            Right.

CASSIDEN:  Sometimes I kind of calibrate to like the environment so I’m like okay, am I coming up too confident? Let me uplift others. So I find that it helps me personally.

PAUL:  Okay.


PAUL:  All right. Appreciated it!

JAMIE:            That’s actually phenomenal advice, Cassiden. That was actually one of the things I kind of just reaffirm with myself recently. Like when you make feel, when you compliment people you make them feel good, you’re also making yourself feel good too. And that’s why actually a wonderful kind of warm-up process as well, where you just walk by somebody you like, you know, hey, I just had to say you look really nice today. It doesn’t have to go any further than that. But that’s a phenomenal activity to, yeah, lift people up. It makes them feel good and it makes you feel good too.  Good stuff, Cassiden.

JASON:            Okay.

PAUL:              Thank you and I appreciate it.

JASON:           Just a quick thing before we let’s say before we have Upgrade and Gus.

UPGRADE:  Yes sir?

JASON:           So okay. I mean just a quick thing. As I was listening to this, you could have also triggered something that she didn’t like. Maybe she’s a certain way; you could have triggered a reaction that she doesn’t like. Like she couldn’t like someone who’s outspoken. She couldn’t like just something that you said that she didn’t like. And then that’s her way of kind of getting back at you by making you look bad to her group, like oh, I didn’t like that guy. An example of this would be like let’s say you’re opening a set and this guy comes in and interrupts. And then he gets blown out or whatever, you continue with the set. And you’re just like, man, was it me or was that guy creepy? Now these girls whether they had some kind of interest in him or not are going to start kind of agreeing with you like yeah, he was kind of creepy. Does that make sense?

PAUL:  Yeah, it makes sense. Of course. Definitely.

JASON:           That could have been just that kind of mechanism reaction to it but do you have anymore? Are you pretty clear in your question?

PAUL: Yeah. I know it’s cool. I don’t want to, I mean I don’t want to go too deep at it. I think I was quite in that direction yet. I just want to prevent myself from going there that’s all but I appreciate info.

JASON:           Thank you. All right. Upgrade?

UPGRADE:  Yeah. I’m here.

JASON:           All right. Let’s go.

UPGRADE:  Okay. So yeah. I wanted to ask you, I was at the bar with a friend of mine and he went up to order and I looked around to see if there was anyone that I can open. I see two sets standing right almost right next to us. And I figured, okay, this is going to be a good warm-up set. So I started to open and it goes really well and then my friend comes back and he starts to talk to one of them, I talked to the other one and I’m kind of curious how far I can take it. And so maybe ten, fifteen minutes later I’m making out with this lady and but the thing was I wasn’t really that attracted to her. And what, yeah I was just curious how far I could take it. And then, so what happened then was after that I kind of felt like opening other sets, but my friend almost like I’ve gone too far that it would be disrespectful to like leave her. And yeah kind of been like stuck there and I wanted to see what your how would handle that situation?

JASON:           Well, first of all, do you owe her anything?

UPGRADE:  No. Probably not.

JASON:           And—

UPGRADE:  I don’t want to be disrespectful or make sound disappointed either,

JASON:           Yeah. That was the next thing. So you don’t have to be there but you’re doing it because somewhere inside of you there’s a sense of I don’t want to disrespect her, right?


JASON:           Now, I’m assuming that you guys were like invested, interacting, one on one.


JASON:           Where did you want to lead this interaction?

UPGRADE:  Well I just want to get warmed up and to get into a good state and be talkative. And then it just went better than expected, so.

JASON:           It feels good having choices though, isn’t it?


JASON:           So I mean one thing you could have done, I don’t know about where you’re at, but I notice sometimes, when I have a set that’s hooked, I can leave for awhile now and do other things and come back and actually me leaving creates this like bigger window of her wanting me.


JASON:           Because then when hooked them at a certain point that the whole like willingness to walk away can start coming into play where I’ve been you know in a set, been working it for a while. Hey, I got to go to the restroom and I actually leave and as I’m coming back I’ve had the girls like been looking for me, I had them texting me all ready, I had times where they’re like by the restroom for me just because you know I had their invested enough, I had the set going strong enough where she starts wanting it more. So that’s one option where you could have left, open another set, whatever, came back, reopen that set,


JASON:           Another option would be a start set merging. So you know, that’s your saved set that you’re talking to, if you open another set through a different opinion opener, whatever, and you bring in, then now you’re, now you’re set merging. Now let’s say you guys all jump back to your place. You have like two or different groups of girls that you were able to bring together and orchestrate this whole thing for you.

UPGRADE:  Yeah. Okay.

JASON:           Does that cover that or you want more on maybe how to avoid the girl or how to like back off?

UPGRADE:  I think that covers that kind of covers it. I think it’s kind of maybe like some emotions within me that is kind of making this hard for me. Do you know what I’m saying?

JASON:           Yeah.

UPGRADE:  Yeah. But, so let’s say if I would walk away for a second then don’t come back and then go open another one and if it’s a small venue then they would obviously see that and so that point isn’t that kind of maybe disrespectful?

JASON:           Well it really…

UPGRADE:  I’m… yeah.

JASON:           It depends you know. What level, let’s say she sees you talking to another girl, she could either get more jealous or want you more or be completely turned off and just eliminate you as a potential suitor especially—


JASON:           If she’s mad at that moment which she’s not that invested herself.


JASON:           So again, that, I think something like that would fall more in your discretion. Whether you know because I’ve been at venues where I’ve open maybe running like two or three sets, just kind of jumping back and forth and yeah, I kind of, don’t get into it and back off because you’re kind of watching out for the other, the other two sets that you have running at the same time.


JASON:           But then again from a distance, it could look like you’re just really just talking to someone.


JASON:           And you come back and be like, hey, wazzup. Oh yeah, yeah. I just met this person or make a joke about her. Yeah, man. You saw that? She was like coming on to me. Where for you—

UPGRADE:  Yeah. Yeah.

JASON:            You kind of joke around about it but it would really be on you and what you wanted to do and where you wanted to take that girl.

UPGRADE:  Yeah. I’ll give that a try next time in the same situation. Let’s see what happens.

JASON:           Okay. Jamie you want to jump in or?

JAMIE:            I’m not going to add anything on that one. I think its pretty good. I mean a lot of it has a lot to do with just kind of sorting things on your head.


JAMIE:            Where you realize you know like I can’t say that I’m confident with that stuff, too. And there’s that nice that keeps figuring out. But in the end, you don’t owe them anything. They don’t owe you anything and you just have to get solid in your head, you know.


JAMIE:            I mean did you really, did you really do that I mean, you kissed her is a promise of a life together or something come on.

JAMIE:            You know. And what do you really gone at that? She had fun with you, she made out with you, you know it’s kind of like, but even if you didn’t do that, right? I mean.


JAMIE:            You weren’t having a monogamous relationship with her; you could be getting other women, Right?

UPGRADE:  Yeah. Yeah.

JAMIE:            If you’re dating other woman I mean in her way just because she cannot see it, I mean you could argue that’s disrespectful, you following me?


JAMIE:            But then again, what if you’re very honest like, yeah, I’m dating other woman. It doesn’t mean I’m not going to be fully present with you when we were together. It doesn’t mean I’m not going to make sure you’re going to have a great experience and leave you better off before you met me? You can still enhance someone’s life without a monogamous relationship, right? You can still give her, you can still enhance her life and give her a great experience even if it goes no farther than that kiss you had ten minutes ago. Right?


JAMIE:            So it’s just a lot of it is just kind of settle on your head like, you know I really don’t owe anyone anything. No one owes me anything. I didn’t mislead her, we just had some fun. We made out or whatever. Like it wasn’t like I told her I was looking for a f*** in the one now it’s over I’m going to go to someone else. It’s all about how you present it, you know. If she came back to you like, hey, I’m not sure you’re having fun, like, you’re having fun, right? Great! So let’s continue having fun together. I don’t know maybe I’ll be back with you in ten minutes, I don’t know like your, there’s no… it’s all about how you present it.


JAMIE:            You made out with her, first thing look I’m really open. Meet some guy, seem so nice, oh, my god, please tell me your blah, blah. Like I’m really looking to get a relationship and ten minutes later then you’re making out with somebody, okay, that’s a little weird?

UPGRADE:  Yeah. Yeah.

JAMIE:            But if you’re like look, you just seem cool. I don’t know, I just want to hang out with you a little bit. You could kiss her, oh, my god, you are a good kisser. Wow, you know we should explore this a little bit and then you go hanging out with someone else? You didn’t tell her some kind of b*** s*** promises.


JAMIE:            So it’s all about you know, it’s all about how you parlay it and its about like there’s a lot of women I meet where you know I mean I know they might want more potentially but I’m not making any b*** s*** promises about any what might ever happen.


JAMIE:             But it doesn’t mean I’m not going to give them a good experience and where they’re going to look upon it as it is just what it was. I mean like I think one of my favorite time was I meet a lot of women, I’ll get to a certain point where I know they’re hooked.


JAMIE:            And then after I have spoken to them we shared a lot of s*** in the middle of the street for example. Like she spend twenty minutes talking to a guy in the middle of the street and this guy never happens to her and after all that I’d leave and say hey, nice speaking to you. I hope I run into you again. It’s like, really that’s it? I didn’t promise you I was going to f***ing start dating you and s***. It doesn’t mean I’m not giving her a great experience. Doesn’t mean she’s not going to tell her friends later and say wow that was really n awesome conversation. I learn something. Why I look up whatever we talked about. So it is all about how you present it like you know you just don’t mislead people.


JAMIE:            You following me?

UPGRADE:  Yeah. That’s great advice.

JASON:           So Gus? And then we have Michael.

GUS:  Are you ready for me?

JASON:           Is this Gus?

GUS:  Yeah. This is me.

JASON:           Hey, Gus.

GUS:  Hey, man. So go ahead.

JASON:           I’m just saying I got to add the sssss…

GUS:  Yeah. Drag it on out.

JASON:           All right, man.

GUS:   So I’ve heard you on a podcast. Whipped up some amazing THV and I’m trying to crack one myself from real life experience and I wanted to see what tweaks you with what I made to it? Okay. So. I kind of would stash it in East Coast, West Coast style. But, so in actuality I’m coming home from work the other day and we stopped toward this guy doing traffic and this car came barreling down like on the shoulder and totally like makes its own lane, like hits this dude. This guy is like old, right? Eighty. And it’s this chick and her totalled out tattooed out boyfriend and their baby’s in the back seat and I’m like the girl gets out and she’s checking on the kid and like the dude gets out doesn’t even check out his child and just starts yelling and getting all aggressive with this old dude. And like everyone just passing and like I felt really bad so I pulled over across the street and I got out there and I had to check this guy because he’s pulling his arms back like what are you doing I mean like how would you start a fight. And so I’m trying to work that into like protect your loved ones even like help cultures like if think like Asian culture how they value their elders, and Native Americans culture how they value their elders. And also possibly trying to work that oh, you’re from wherever and I was down in a city, me here and this is what happened and most people are really, really good but it’s just that, you now what I’m saying? It’s just a few people that are like that but it’s a really great place whatever. What are your thoughts on that?

JASON:           The whole time I’m thinking what’s the point of this story?

GUS:  Okay.

JASON:           Where’s your, you have one DHP which you got out of the car protected this old guy but you know what other characteristics are portraying about yourself? You’re coming in with this huge story to demonstrate something about yourself as a person, yet you’re telling me about this other guy, hit some car and you got out and protected him but you know what else? Does that make sense? Is there kind of humor in there? Is there, did—

GUS:   What I was trying to do I agree with you there’s not a lot of a different pieces you want to hit in there.

JASON:           You want to add you know the humor, the suspense, the drama? You know just, if you wanted to like this is just throwing something out there you know like, okay I have one.

GUS:   Hey dude, if it’s trash can worthy you can say that, too. You’re not going to hurt my feeling.

JASON:           Yeah. Because I would almost I would be like it’s the craziest thing happened, right? Dude you have like I think you were you said you were trying to use East Coast vibe kind of thing so you’re  like, you know you kind of East Coast kind of vibe blah, blah, blah. And I was just out there last week and man the craziest thing happened, right? So I’m in traffic and this car just comes in zooming past me, cuts his own lane, blah, blah, blah and I’m like what the hell is going on right? Couple of minutes later the second car just passes and slammed right into it, right? So I’m, whoa! What the hell is going on? Like this is weird, this has never happened to me, right? And I don’t know where I see this two chicks pull out of the car right, one of them is like a chick and a guy, the other one was just some girl and they started going off like in the middle of the freeway, right so I don’t know what’s going on. I jumped out of my car to kind of stop it and see what’s going on then I’m blah, blah, blah I talked to the guy, long story short, it turns out one of them cheated on him and they were fighting over him. It’s not as interesting but now as adding more like drama to it, does that make sense?

GUS:  Yeah. Yeah.

JASON:           Craziest thing happened. You’re adding more excitement to it. If you want you can email me a couple of things and I’ll kind of help you, guide them in the right direction.

GUS:  Thanks, dude. I’ll Google it now.

JASON:           But does that make sense for as far as a DHV store? You want to add more emotions more DHV’s about yourself, more drama if you want to call it, more humor.

GUS:  Ok. More GC dramatic.

JASON:           Yes.

GUS:  Really?

JASON:           Yes interesting. What’s going to show something about you, like I said, we’ll work with you.

GUS:  Hey thanks, Jason.

JAMIE:            Yeah. I was getting a little bit into that. And by the way Gus, when you send an email, you know, email me and Jason like cc me on that as well.

GUS:  All right. Thanks man.

JAMIE:            So here’s what I want to tell you. You know it’s funny like anyone who has never done what you’re  doing and just starts watching videos,  reading books, its kind of easy to be seduced by you watch Heir for example. This things are like f***ing drawn out, you know, dramatic stories and while it’s so awesome, you guys are so intriguing, you know. Yeah, I need a protector of love one story, very few people can really do that s*** like you can. So and not to mention also often times your stories are a lot of context where you try and tell some big long dry out story too early in the conversation, you know with a lot of that f***ing you know moving parts and detail, you going to lose your audience. The more in the beginning and again, Jason is a master of this stuff, man? You know in the beginning, I just want to give you a rule of thumb here, in the beginning you’re going to do so much better just focusing on humor. Don’t worry so much about a big drawn out story about you know about protect your love ones, coming up with a gazillion of those. Let’s have some fun little playful stories they’re just almost childish and lastly, one or maybe two paragraphs in the beginning. Do not worry so much about your D trees in the beginning, just get them laughing. If you can get them laughing you can get to the next step. Then they’ll have patience to listen to your D trees, you’re following me?

GUS:  I hear you. Okay.

JAMIE:            So that’s just the important thing to kind of keep in mind as far as like an overall game plan. I mean if you listen to Jason’s stories, again he’s so great at this like you know, you listen in beginning like, a car zoomed by, the next one… what the f*** is  going on here? What’s wrong in the people here and you know, its almost like a playful story in the beginning. Did you notice that? Even with the way he’s telling you it’s like what the f*** is going on here? What’s with the driver’s here in whatever city. You following me?

GUS:  Yeah. Yeah.

JAMIE:            So he’s making it fun and engaging. He’s not even really, he’s not even necessarily anything up to the details yet and just kind of this playful,  fun, interesting story but there’s already some humor, there’s already some humor being kind of you know parlayed. So in the beginning you know I—one of our coaches says, if you have some really sound bites and fun sound bites, you don’t have to talk a lot. Just have some fun little sound bites to make people laugh. You don’t have to have these massively drawn out stories. So really just me getting like focus on your humor. The promise that you tell like an original story, you tell a story that’s too intense, you become Mister f***ing intense guy. And it’s not what you’re looking for at the bar.  Like thanks for an intense f***ing story, we’re going to go have a shot of tequila and forget everything you just told us because that’s like a little too much. You know it’s better if you bring some humor and fun into your interactions with people in the beginning.

GUS:  Okay. Okay. I’ll keep that in mind while I’m in the workshop.

JAMIE:            Yeah. Yeah that’s what I wanted to add.

GUS:  Thanks Jamie.

JAMIE:            Yeah. No problem.

JASON:           Okay. Let’s see Michael?

MICHAEL:   Hey, man. Got a question and I’m trying to figure out where things went wrong here. I don’t usually, I know how you guys feel about taking out servers and  don’t really do that anyways because it’s not, there’s better way of doing it. I think also there’s a girl in my neighborhood who’s a server and I always do a lot of my work from there. I will just get a beer and watch hockey game or whatever and I ended up connecting with her and we started talking and texting, and went on a date the other day and then all of a sudden it just like—she was very enthusiastic and seemed like she was very in to me and now all of sudden she just disappeared like I don’t know. We’re supposed to do something today, now just to give you a bit of a back story I had had been on a, the first time I’ve seen her I was at her establishment on a date with another girl and she knew. She knew that I was looking at her. She knew I was into her more than my date. And she just picked that up she since told me that, and I was like well yeah, okay.  That was true, but then I also kind of made passes at one of her co-workers so I don’t know where I blew it. But everything was moving progressively forward and the texting and in the conversation, the dialogue, and everything. Like texting was always my weak game and I kind of turned that into a stronger game with the courses I’ve taken and different things and understanding people, but do you have any input why it just vaporize there?

JASON:           What happened right before it vaporized?

MICHAEL:  Not a lot. Like I had been working a lot and I slept for twenty four hours straight. She was texting me you know quite a bit. I was trying to keep it even par leaving gaps in between texting back and forth yeah I’m just going to see if I see something that sticks out with that. Nothing in particular. She just told me to have a good sleep and she was going to physio. Smiley faces all that stuff so.

JASON:           She was going visio?

MICHAEL:  Physio.

JASON:           Physio.


JASON:           And that how long ago was this?

MICHAEL:  Just two days ago.

JASON:           Two days ago and then she hasn’t replied?

MICHAEL:  No. She hasn’t replied. She just told me what she was doing and I just said hey that’s great, whatever. Just blah, blah, blah and then I just asked her what’s going on yesterday, what was happening and nothing came back. So I’m just assuming that her afraid of talking so it’s probably like if there progressive and they’re moving forward. You’ve already been on a date, there is no reason they would turn in, turn on you right after, right?

JASON:           Because I mean a lot—

MICHAEL:  You’ve got a good experience.

JASON:           I mean—

MICHAEL:  You said so.

JASON:           All I’m thinking is she either has something going on in her life because from my, from what you’re telling me it doesn’t look like you did anything, right? Where there is oh, this happened. I know exactly why.

MICHAEL:  Usually there would be that. Yeah.

JASON:           The fact that you hit on her friend was that long enough ago where it wouldn’t be an issue now?

MICHAEL:  She has a great memory because she remembers exactly what I ordered the night I went on with the girl on a date. She’s got a great memory so she’s probably talk to her in like not what’s on me and the thing was I wasn’t even like I wasn’t even interested with her friend. I only like talking to her like a practicing game, right. It doesn’t matter who or whatever, just hit at everything and you get better and that’s all I was doing. I think that’s it.

JASON:           I mean it seems to me like a part from that, even though it shouldn’t be an issue because you guys aren’t dating seriously. It would really just kind of leave it in the open, keep going with your business as far going in to her place of work and whatnot in getting your work done.


JASON:           And where it goes from there and how she interacts to you, you know. And it might be one of those things where you could ask her like, you I have a question like, you just became cold out of nowhere you know was it something I did or is it something about you. Like I’m just curious about that because I do that a lot of the times I’m still in speaking terms with the girl, I like to get there and put on what I could have done better.

MICHAEL:  Right.

JASON:           You know, so—

MICHAEL:  That’s important. Yeah. Feedback helps.

JASON:           If there is an issue I would rather confront her about it and find out rather than          second guessing myself because either this, either this.

MICHAEL:  Right.

JASON:           So other than that, it doesn’t seem like there was a point that where you lost them. I had girls disappear on me and then a couple of weeks later they’re like texting me, hey, you know, how have you been? I go whoa, you didn’t who the hell are you? You know. Sometimes it was because they started talking to her boyfriend again. Other times going through personal issues, it’s Mother’s Day.

MICHAEL:  Right. Now it’s just weird because when they gave you feedback like hey I like talking to you, I like hanging out with you and all that. And now all of a sudden they’re, it’s like what the f*** up. Whatever.

JASON:           I mean that was going to happen. I have stories for days on stuff like this.


JASON:           But yeah there doesn’t seem like there’s a trigger point that would cause the interaction to end. So all you could really do is assume something happened to her life or she has some kind of an issue that wasn’t an issue until she went home and thought about it and all of a sudden something you did is an [inaudible]. You know. And again, you know, my approach to this since I see her on a consistent basis would be to just asked.


JASON:           And in a non-needy confrontational way. Either you’re going to come in like, hey, I’m curious. You’ve been a little quiet. How are you doing? Like are you okay?

MICHAEL:  No emotion.

JASON:           Yeah you want to maybe come in with a little not from a place where hey, what the f***s going on like I’m trying to hit you up and you’re not answering. More from a place like, hey, how are you doing? Like are you okay? Is everything good?

MICHAEL:  Next time. It would feel good to be able to set out I want that chick. I kind of took my time, I didn’t feel like I was quite ready to go talk to her yet and then when I was all just right then I just went for it and she was pretty happy that I had wanted to connect with her. You know so I went home feeling good about that. Whatever. There’s much more opportunity.

JASON:           Anything else, Jamie? Before I kind of throw in this last point?

JAMIE:            Yeah. So Michael, I don’t know if I miss this here did you hang out with her one time or no? Did I miss that?

MICHAEL:  Yeah I did. We went to lunch during the day. She was working and it was before my shift so—

JAMIE:            Okay. All right

MICHAEL:  Had lunch with her and I went as well as it could have gone.

JAMIE:            When you say it went the way it could have went, can you tell me what that means? What happened? Did you—when you left for example, did you like kiss or anything like what happened?

MICHAEL:  Yeah. The dinner like I didn’t I don’t believe I did anything to make myself look stupid or whatever, you know. I calibrated this pretty good, I think. And then while we’re laughing I drove her back to her office and I asked her in the car…

JAMIE:            Let me ask you in another way here, okay, but be eager for a second. What did you do to get her excited about you? And for example you didn’t have to kiss her but maybe talk like a certain chick like you even asked her are you a good kisser? What would you do with me if you were—I’m just saying if you were her, what would you have been excited about that you did? Was it just like a normal lunch date? Got a good conversation? Or what would you tell your friends later, like Michael he did blah, blah, blah.

MICHAEL:  Good conversation, a little bit of playful, funny. She’s pretty direct so you know comedy’s kind of like a tricky thing with her. I didn’t play any sexual type of stuff with her. Not really. I couldn’t sense a good opportunity where I could come up with anything that was worth saying. But when we left like I was touching her I’ll be holding her hand for a moment like at the dinner table, we’ll be talking about something and when I left, I asked her I was like do you want to kiss me and then we kissed and that was that, so.

JAMIE:            You did it okay. Awesome! Okay that’s great. Okay. So.

MICHAEL:  I was not going to let her get away without at least trying so.

JAMIE:            Yeah. That’s awesome. I just want to make sure I wanted to see what kind of experience you gave her because in the end you know you want to give her something more than most people so, you know like some level of excitement, some kind of edge. That sounds great. And sometime the truth is you know its like kind of like what Jason was saying. I have had many times of the interaction and I will exit and I’ll be thinking to myself like this, like, dude, that girl doesn’t f***ing take the bait from what I just gave her that experience, there’s nothing more I could have done. You know what I’m saying?


JAMIE:            And that’s the understanding that we are people and you’re not meat to necessarily match up with everybody. So sometimes you just let the cards fall as they may. Like when I’m dude I gave her the best f***ing dose myself. If that’s not good enough there not too much I can do. So that is a possibility, but that’s sometime you had a good date and I like the ending so awesome. I just want to make sure I understood that. The one thing I will add is this though, the one thing I did get though a little bit from your conversations like afterwards, as far as follow up for example, you know. Where your last interaction that she didn’t respond to was what’s going on, what’s happening and she didn’t respond back to that, correct?

MICHAEL:  Yeah. It wasn’t exactly like that. I just asked her I forget what I said exactly. Yeah, I just said, hey, what’s happening? After she had to work, I told her that I had slept for twenty four hours straight the longest sleep of my life and I never got a word back after that. But she had been like really enthusiastic in her text coming backwards at me. Like how she enjoyed hanging out with me and why would she say that… it’s really weird.

JAMIE:            There’s that enthusiastic text happen before the last one where you were like twenty four hours asleep, right?

MICHAEL:  Yeah. And even the second, the last text she gave me you know still have some enthusiasm with it so.

JAMIE:            Yeah. Okay.

MICHAEL:  It’s something weird; somebody has poisoned the waters or something. If I had this happened recently, you know, I scored a great girl and my so called friends from work poisoned the waters and told her I was whatever, but.

JAMIE:            Well maybe not. The only thing maybe just spring out as a possibility is in general you want to be offering value, value, value. You don’t want to be, hey, what’s happening? There’s not a lot of value there. You know what I’m saying?


JAMIE:            You want to have things to offer and for example a way better way to do that, if you just want to connect to keep things open. Why don’t you just get on the phone for five minutes? Call her, hey, crazy day. Hey, just to hear your voice there’s value there. A little text with hey, how’s your day going? You know what I’m saying, there’s not a lot of value there. It’s actually if anything it suck in value. It’s kind of like you know hey it just me.

MICHAEL:  Right.

JAMIE:            So if you can do something like that why don’t you just call her up for five minutes? Hey, I got five minutes before my meeting but you know, oh my god. Just go on something. Offer something. You know there’s value there but like text messaging I like just for logistics. You know like for the most part if I want to really keep connected I’d still quick phone call or something  or you know one of those voice text you know where you text them but it’s a voice text but at least there’s something there because they get to hear your voice, they get to listen to it. There’s something more engaging.

Just something like how’s your day going? There’s no value there. It’s like what do you really want from me? I’m just having a normal day. It allows the energy to just kind of subside but almost in some ways better not to say anything at all. Text later on or the next day. You don’t have to have communication everyday but maybe the next day when you actually have something worthwhile then you give her a quick call. Hey, oh, my god. You’re not just going to believe what just happened. Do you have a quick five minutes? Hey, I need your advice on something; you know you have a quick two minutes of chat? You know stuff like that, value. You have to almost like ask yourself you know where am I going to go with this? What’s going to be the follow through? Would I want to hear from me? If the answer’s no, just boring chitchat then maybe it’s not just anything.

MICHAEL:  What you’re saying is like what played out through my head. That was what I thought I could have utilized and done more the entire time I’ve been connecting with this person last week. So yeah I completely agree. I should have been on the phone more often.

JAMIE:            Yeah.

MICHAEL:  Big difference between your voice and words that are on a screen.

JAMIE:            Yeah know when to speak and know when not to speak. But you know in general sense you want to be offering value. There is no value to it then just don’t do it, better not to say anything.


JAMIE:            So that’s so maybe that’s one thing that coupled with some other stuff going on in her life just isn’t just kind of cradle of it below you very well might hear from her just let it go for now. Let’s just see what happens.

MICHAEL:  Yeah. See what happens. If nothing goes on then I’ll go find another.

JAMIE:            There you go. That’s the best f***ing answer of all.

JASON:           Yeah. So is there anyone else in this call that did not get called on? Okay so I’m going to stop recording.

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