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TAY 174 :How to reinvigorate a conversation when it gets dull

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Today’s podcast we talked how to reinvigorate a conversation if it starts to stale out. We also discussed how to run your routine stack if introduced to your target. (rather than a cold approach).

JAMIE: All right. So, Zayn, let’s start with you here. Sounds like you have some good updates. Let’s hear about it. Where, what is a good interaction? Maybe some extra today, maybe you go over a little bit of with some kind of breakthrough, maybe you can tell us a little bit about it? And then maybe that leading up to whatever topic you want to discuss. Does that sound fair?

ZAYN:             Yeah. Sure. So really the first issue that I was going into was approaching anxiety, and then there was some mental exercise that I have to go trough to get over that. And once I did, I was off script. I wasn’t following the script that you provided and even what I learned through the routine stack class, so I was getting to a stack without fear that I would just fail and then I would just that alone would prevent me from opening up more stacks because then I felt like I feel I don’t know what I am doing. That’s where we were last time and then after that we had our little talk. I went to routine stack notes and what we discussed with the openers, and the spikes and the routines, the DHV stories and I went through that and I had some pretty good successes this past weekend.

I was able to open about six stacks with that successfully is getting them engaged then they’re laughing and we’re having a good time. Now it’s a different thing. I drunk a little bit too much so I ended up passing out so I couldn’t finish what I’ve started, but I did had have the success that I was looking for that previously alluded me for multiple reasons some nameless the approach of anxiety that I have been follow what you provided. So that was all about. Now, having said that most of the times I find my self getting warm introduction to friends, to female friends so other then a lot of times that swept me up because I’m used to starting from the opener and don’t have an open then and I often times don’t know where to start. I can… I’ve done the like the best time and the good time and the cold reads from that point on, but it kind of turns me off. I’m sure it’s more of the preparation that I just need to do a little more preparation and the material. But what are your thoughts on that in regards to warm introductions especially if there’s from another female side who’s introducing her friends?

JAMIE:            Yeah. Well, great question, so if you ever get put in a situation where you’re introduced and you have to start with the cold right, hey, just want to hello and you guys seems like you have great energy, but you don’t have to do that. Actually, I mean I personally am a big fan of starting with just an opinion opener, like hey, actually I like you can introduce to your friend, right?  Hey, this is my friend, Jennifer. Awesome! Hey, so Jennifer, get this actually, I was talking to a friend of mine earlier about blah, blah, blah; or what do you think? Going right into an opinion opener right away as if you have something already to discuss? Almost like a topic of the day? It’s really nice way to just kind of segue into kind of what’s on your mind and an opinion opener would often times be pretty good like I have that all the time and like I’m hey, actually Jennifer, so get this I have this friend of mine, maybe you could be of help here, and then just go right into it. And this way what’s cool is I am just getting conversational right away there is no awkwardness. I’m talking to her just like I would talk to anyone else.

ZAYN:             Okay.

JAMIE:            Then, once you have some good conversations going for not long maybe you don’t want to let this go too long but maybe about two minutes into it, then I might say, you know what? You just have really great energy, boom! Now I’m back on my routine stack.

ZAYN:             Yeah. I found myself just getting caught up in just like conversation one point let to another. Anyways, you know they would bring up some sexual topic now and then we laugh on it and expand on it, and it just kind of go with direction, with no direction. It was fun, and we laughed. And I was saying things that were kind of little over the top and they don’t really care.  They took them, they didn’t mind that I was saying things, they were just laughing and kind of in shock with what I was saying but yeah, again I guess I went off script on that so once again I was a little bit  I was under the influence more than usual so I’m, we had all together.

JAMIE:            Okay. But you’re starting to make progress now. How many, over the last week, how many sets did you open? Out of curiosity, what’s the final number? I think you mentioned like six, right?

ZAYN:             It was six, yeah. And that was just the weekend and then after the week started I just didn’t get, so yeah.

JAMIE:            Okay. And out of the six how many of them were truly cold opens?

ZAYN:             Out of six, just one. One was cold.

JAMIE:            One was cold. Okay. We need to get that number up a little bit because that’s going to give you a lot more experience and again, the whole idea, one of the main ideas of why you do what you did, is just to you know, open up some possibilities you might not have otherwise have had so I think it is awesome, sounds you’re making some great progress but you really want to push yourself and open up some strangers, like total strangers.

ZAYN:             Yeah. I agree.

JAMIE:            So that’s good. But anyway, sounds like you’re doing may great. Did that answer your question about how to kind of just jump into a conversation like when you… for example, another good example is if you wing your friend, right? You’re friend goes in first and afterwards he introduces you, hey, this is my friend, Zayn. You could just jump right into it in a fun little opinion opener conversational topic. It is a great way just to jump right into it and the great thing is you’re busy talking to her like you talked to anybody, it’s not strained, you’re not like, so where are you from? What do you do? Right away just gives you something interesting just to converse about. Is that somewhat a good tool for you to use? That’s what I find that works for me quite well.

ZAYN: Yeah. That’s perfect. That’s excellent! That’s what I need.

JAMIE:            Yeah. The opinion opener serves several purposes. This is really important opinion openers are a great way to start a conversation. They’re also a great away like in your kind of thing, would like a warm lead, right? Like I didn’t mean to dehumanize anybody, but like really like where you’re introduced those opinion are presented quickly just to kind of jump in to the conversation, hey, get this, so my friend, blah, blah, blah. They’re also really nice too. There is another advantage to having these opinion openers on the tap just in case. It’s also good that sometimes you find your conversation starts to wane or get a little awkward?

Like you know when you open up a two set and you kind of go to the first couple of things then it kind of stagnates a little bit? You could easily jump into, hey, let me get your opinion on these and boom! You jump into that and it reinvigorates the conversation and gives you time to kind of get your bearing and it also gives you the opportunity to introduce various conversational threads so this way you have more topics like Eric says, you know, multithreading. So there are a lot of advantages there but opinion openers are really great way to either reinvigorate the conversation, to win a friend, and also when you’re introduced. So there is other applications are really good to use those for even if you are not using them to actually open. Even if you use just, hey, I just want to come and say hello and introduce myself, an opinion openers are great thing to have in your back pack and for those reasons.

ZAYN:             Okay

JAMIE:            Sound good?

ZAYN:             Yeah. Yeah. That’s perfect.

JAMIE:            All right. Oh, do me favor just because we’ve Ron on that call here from also an attendant from boot camp with you,  I told him that you know, you have some breakthroughs recently so maybe you can kind of elaborate on what you’ve cause look, to all listeners here, this is a personal development program with facilitators pick up, or social artistry, or whatever you want to refer to this as one specific discipline that we focus on here, but we also very much encourage people to really better themselves and to enrich their lives in every way and often times  that includes other types of continued education. So on that note, I might love if you maybe give Ron, kind of an idea of some other things you were doing to expand your ability to kind of make new age groups.

ZAYN:             Sure. So the biggest program that I signed up for is for is called NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming and it’s by Dr. Tad James. He’s a very well known person in the NOP community and it’s, it works with the co-founders of that area of study and what it is, is it helps the person connect with their subconscious so because a lot of times actually most of what we do is just automatic/subconscious. And when we can talk to our subconscious, we  can tell it what to do, get rid of our fears, and limits and beliefs then we are no longer emotionally attached to those and once we do that and of course anxiety is no longer. There is no such thing as an anxiety because you finally got rid of self limiting beliefs and negative emotions that include fear. And basically it was a four day training session. We go down the country be around and the city and it is well worth every penny and it’s actually very low cost too compared to some of its competitors. I would highly recommend anybody going to the NOP for that reason,

JAMIE:            Awesome. So we’ll give them free advertising here. Yeah, I know a lot feels it takes minutes. It’s pretty worthwhile and Ron, you know you’re now talking to second, but you know, is I am sure Zayn can attest to, you know he had the tools from the book camp but he’s still was kind of work through that kind of, in that switch right, so he’s actually doing the emotions but of course now he kind of address that in his other class now he’s using the techniques and he’s having some pretty interesting experiences. And it’ll only grow from there. So that might be something to consider. You know I tell people lots of times to kind of the whole getting beyond approach anxiety or at least dancing with the fear, sometimes it takes a little time to kind of find that trigger that works for you whether it’s a mind set, some kind of ritual you do, or whatever. So I think what every you know, this might be something worth exploring just to get you out of your head so you’re really practicing. And of course I haven’t spoken to you yet. So far that I know you might have f***ing killed it last week but I think that is really great, Zayn. So thanks for sharing that.

ZAYN: Yeah and our friend, who I’m doing the cruise with, she’s the one who actually recommended it. So that’s where it came from.

JAMIE:            Wonderful! Okay. My friend, awesome! Well Zayn, we truly appreciate it. So Ron, if you are there, let’s go to you.

RON:   Hi.

JAMIE:            Hello. So yeah, let’s get right into it. How things kind of doing? How is your progress?

RON:   Well it’s better than zero, so that is a plus.

JAMIE:            Definitely.

RON:   I know, I know. It’s a… I did met three pretty much in the past few days actually,  I kind of put it off before the call and it actually went a lot easier, I actually kind of found some luck. I have been hanging out in coffee shops like usual but I found some luck using one of the lines I’ve heard Jason dropped on us at the camp which was; hey, I got a creepy personal question for you, can you watch my stuff? And then you leave and then you’d come back and I’ve been like sitting at their table and being like, you know I do can a weird question. If a girl has a boyfriend and I go into that, and then I do vibe, you know you have a really great vibe, kind of a West Coast vibe, and that has actually been really successful. And it kind of leads into this kind of a casual free flung conversation that I wrapped it up after a couple of minutes and go back to stuff and so I was pretty pleased with that progress.

JAMIE:            Okay.

RON:   Now I’ve been thinking more about like DHV stories cause I need a little bit more focus on what I am going to  stack into next, so that’s been kind of what been putting together.

JAMIE:            That’s… hey, that is good progress. Once you’ve convinced yourself and you see how easy it is a flow, again a lot of this is, the truth is you’re just offering conversation. It’s not that big of a deal, but once you’ve done it a few times and it starts to flow, you know the repetition, you’ll convince yourself that you know just from the experience you see it’s not that bad. Now you just need to keep pushing forward that’s really kind of it. But you know, the next step focusing on your D3 stories or some type of buying temperature piece. It is really what you are going to have, you know, coming up next and you know you haven’t been sending your DHV stories yet, I… but this is an opportunity for you to really kind of work on those a little bit. And the thing I want to bring into your attention because I came upon a call earlier, is if there is one particular thing you want to hit on those stories is they’re funny. Like it doesn’t matter, I mean if it comes down to going for interesting or funny, you go for f***ing funny because you make the girl laugh, she’s going to want to be around you. So that’s the key.

So these stories you’re crafting and you’re going to start telling, you want them to be playful and fun and in the meantime, this way you don’t hold up shop here, how about this, in the meantime use the stack stuff that you’ve given. You know you have the… you can find ways to kind of take…  you guys just girl code it… if it’s… or when one on one you can’t use that story, or the best friends test for example but if it is a group set, use those. Those are wonderful. They will absolutely work so best friends test, you know the girl coding, routine; those are wonderful and in that case you can just kind of combine it with like oh, my God! Get this. I was like in L.A and oh, my god! Girl coding that does work for guys at all. And you can make it sound it’s relevant to travel you can do that, but the great news is that story will work. It’s funny; it’s playful so the thing that I’m really trying to hit home for you here is humor is the main thing that needs to happen in that story. A girl doesn’t get a shit about how interesting you are compared to humor nine out of ten times. And while you work on that stuff you do have a little arsenal of some things—of some stack stories you can use from now. Or eighteen pieces—

RON:   Yeah. For sure I have been referencing the ones that you sent me. It’s… I’ve got one about ready to go. I guess I’ll… maybe I’ll email it to you for some feedback but I did kind of weave in the whole Ashley friend thing which I felt a little bit weird about but hey, let’s see how you make of it.

JAMIE:            Okay!

RON:   Yeah. We’ll just leave it at that.

JAMIE:            Okay.

RON:   But I’m otherwise that’s it for cold approaches, there are a couple of girls that are in my social circle that I have kind of set up some meet ups with, and that’s been going pretty well but I would like to focus more on these called approaches in the next couple weeks.

JAMIE:            Okay. The other thing that you want to keep in mind, everything really has a value, right? So it should be consent like you know value, value, you know these D3 stories,  various things you do but some stuff you can offer it’s going to stimulate her, it’s not just going to be you know that first D3 story for example, it’s going to be the fact that you’re the kind of guy that actually offers things, right? Like I said, you can have a great conversation to grow over in the middle of the streams and just two minutes in to it and say hey, I know it might sound a little crazy being    just  met you but I am… I was just to go to grab a cup of coffee, come join me. Just by offering things know what it really does, it’s cool like it’s that you’re offering some kind of really random serendipitous kind of moment.

So the main point of trying to get here is think in advance or what kind of ways you are going to really put some charge in to that conversation. Right? For example, like I will give you a good example just to get my point across. Let’s just say you got into qualifications, right? Your first qualification out there. You’re like hey, so what do you do around here? You know… so what do you do around here?  Please don’t say model or what would you want to be when you are grown up and please don’t say princess. Let’s say you did one of those qualifiers, right? And you know what you’re doing like okay, cool qualifications begun, she’s just giving great answer.

Don’t go too far, you know don’t go like more than like you know say like five minutes, ten minutes before you start throwing in some edgier stuff like you know what let’s just cut to the chase here, are you a good kisser? You know stuff like that just to add some flare even if she kind of not rejects but kind of test you a little bit with that. Just the fact that you’re introducing this kind of things, you are going to be so much further ahead than anyone else. So what I’m trying to get here is I think it is also what you are doing, you are getting these conversations with some random people but remember at the end of the day, you know people are looking, they are looking for some kind of value, some kind of entertainment, someone adding something.

Like you ever need a girl, a girl in the bar or club whatever, they’re looking to surround themselves with people that can take their current state of energy and elevate it. That’s who they want to be around. You make them laugh, then they want to be around you and one of the easiest ways to do is have these fun little sound bites and little routines and sexual little gambits and just to keep it a little edgy and want to know in advance the kind of things you might do to do that.

And again that’s straight from your boot camp so, go back into your material and start saying okay, here is some edgy kind of comments I can make, here’s some edgy qualifier I can use. I just reviewed one for you just there like dude, even ten minutes into it. If you made it clear, if you made it clear to the girl and she knows this is going in a non-platonic direction, f*** it! Just… You know what let’s just cut to the chase here. Are you a good kisser? You know you can totally hold that frame that you’re just being playful just kind of cut into the chase a little bit. Why waste a date just let’s find out now, you know. You can do these things if you want too but be prepared to offer that because if you can do that, that’s  going to serve you really, really well and so even if you are just kind of general conversationalist,  as long as you keep that conversation moving you have a good chance to get her to stick around with you. So just go back to your stuff and just re-familiarize yourself for some of those routines and material from your boot camp, okay?

RON:   Yeah. For sure. I have been kind of reviewing some of that when I have time.

JAMIE:            Okay. Anything else? I want to just give you one more shot only because you missed a lot in the last couple of calls so I just want to just give you a little extra if you want.

RON:   No, I think that covers it. A lot of it is just on my end, I got to keep reviewing and doing approaches before I can get more technical I guess. The one thing which maybe we can talk about when I send you my DHV story is, you know I want to learn to be of course, authentic and genuine and be myself that’s kind of a key, right. And then when I’m making like the story more interesting and more entertaining and after all this Ashley friend that is based on a real person but she wasn’t really there, it just feels like I’m trying to be more phony in order to create an impression and I know that’s f***ing up the point of course but, and what is the different way of thinking about that?

JAMIE:            Well, I mean, I can tell you some of the stuff I do. I just enjoy the process of like saying stuff and just kind of entertaining people you know what I am saying? So I look at it like I am adding some extra entertainment value. I mean I just met the person. I very well might not see them ever again, who gives a s***. And if I can brighten her day a little bit and offer them something it’s going to add a little entertainment value, I feel like its win-win for both sides. I am enjoying practicing, listening to myself speak, they are having a fun little story, who gives a s***. You know, I get it, it is all in the context. I think of it in terms of the first time I meet somebody; they don’t need to know every detail. It doesn’t need to be all straight forward they’re in a kind of a as needs to know basis.

Now I am total with you on the authenticity, you know by the time you really… if you’ve decided that you and that girl are going to start to know each other, upon doing that, once… you know once, you know we are like on some bounce location or day two or something like that, you know I’m showing them who I am like legitimately. So you know the first thing, the first phase when you’re first meeting somebody you got to get it from the front door.  If you need to kind of to fabricate a little bit just so you’re going to have them just so they can get themselves out of their ADD states to listen to you and give you a shot? You know its serves everyone long term.

But once you got there, they’re like, they’re open to you. You got your foot in the front door, then hey, dude, I’m all about authenticity, showing who you are, great showing your best self but I’m with you. It’s just the first phase but no one really told you 100% who they are. You know what I’m saying?

They’re just kind of nature of things. Now if it is a problem of congruency not authenticity, see if it’s about being authentic, all of that helps but if it is about congruency where you mentioning this friend Ashley who obviously wasn’t really there, then you know we find other ways to do it, you know. In the end you have to deliver a congruent message where people, they feel that they’re getting like a legitimate experience with you. So these are two different things it depends, I certainly make sure you’re… were focusing on the right thing here but if it is about you feeling like you’re like you’re some kind of moral dilemma, that you’re not being authentic the first time, I get over that one pretty quickly because dude, you know what? I’ll be honest, I mean one girl could be totally honest to me the first time I meet them, but at least not for the first couple of hours, like dude, I don’t need to know what their f***ing religious beliefs are and how they made this oath then blah, blah, blah and they are these hardships and—I don’t want to know all s***. I just want to have a little fun.

So with that said, if I asked him something, and they don’t tell me something, I think that’s great, I don’t really want to hear about it granted after that first time we’ve decided to actually get to know each other and I am starting to invest in her and she’s starting to invest in me, then okay let’s… this is going into a different level. I will offer who I really I am and I want to know who she really she is, too. So, everything in context, that’s   my view in authenticity. You know everything has its time and place. You don’t have to worry about being the most authentic person in the bar where everyone is drunk listening to some DJ. You know what I am saying?

RON:   Right.

JAMIE:            If she wants to believe you bought the table for everybody but you didn’t, let her f***ing believed it, who gives a s***? Because later on she might thank you that she assumed did and got to know a f***ing great guy. So who really lost in that scenario? There’s a big difference doing that versus actually once you decide to create a relationship and then starting to create a relationship based on b*** s*** . You know you can always tell the girl the second day that hey, actually, and you know she brings up day two, day three, hey, you know, actually I didn’t buy that, that was my friend, Mike, or whoever. It doesn’t matter, you know. But at that point you decided to get to know each other, you know. So everything in context, everything has its place, you don’t have to be so honest and authentic the first time you meet somebody and like I’ve said, likewise, I don’t want them to be so honest with every little thing with me, but that’s the way I think about it. You have to find your own way to think about it but long term yeah, you want to be, you want to show them who you are.

RON:   Oh, yeah. Totally, I can understand withholding information initially, I mean everybody does that, but I was struggling more with this straight up making up information and putting stories out there. But you know what? I’m probably going to go with it anyway and if I don’t like it, I’ll just stop along the way so problem solved. So, I’ll send you my DHV story… I know.

JAMIE:            All right. All right.

RON:   Maybe a few stories later on. Pretty soon.

JAMIE:            Hey, try. I mean, if the courier story is true and you just added an imaginary friend, who gives a s***. You’re just having fun, dude, you make her laugh, she’s getting value too, she doesn’t really… at that point, she is not really… she’s not invest in you yet. She hasn’t decided to get to know you but if you’re going to make her laugh, well, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone loses in that scenario. If you’re introducing an imaginary character, gets her to listen to you, and actually gets you to enjoy yourself, I don’t really see the harm on that one personally. You know remember, you just… at that point it was just a random conversation. I wouldn’t say on day three to bring up stories of your friend Ashley. I don’t think you need to do that anymore. But first time, f*** it.

RON:   Yeah, totally.

JAMIE:            Okay. Is that good?

RON:   Yeah. That’s good. Thanks a lot.

JAMIE:            You’re welcome. So, Zefer, are you there?

ZEFER: Yes, I am here.

JAMIE:            All right, man. Fire away.

ZEFER:             Well, I’m basically new at this. I recently got the VIP package last week and starting to see the materials and I just want to start using it. But I really haven’t done anything yet.

JAMIE:            Okay. Okay. Well then let me just, I’ll just reaffirm for you here, since you’ll get so much value in the future. So the idea is every week, you have one assignment, all right. One assignment that’s every week, fifteen sets, that’s what your goal is. And that’s not just, hi, how are you, goodbye. It’s you go as far as you can, you know. You at least push it to like a move or a phone number or a make-out or something where you’re essentially putting yourself out there. Where she could say no, no, I’m not going to go with you to get coffee, no I’m not going to give you my phone number. You put yourself out there where you have a risk. So, the idea is every week you do fifteen of those minimum. Okay. That’s a goal. Make sense?


JAMIE:            Now, because the idea is we can’t really help you if you are not doing the work, right?  So you do your 15 sets, it’s inevitable. You’re going to have at least one or two, maybe even more that don’t go so well. And so you then come on a call in VIP, you come on to call that and we show you or we make sure that you are using the tools the way they are intended. I mean, to anyone listening here, you know that’s the main value of VIP. You can’t learn this in silence. You try f***ing read some books and watch videos they don’t talk back to you. And if you read a book or watch a video you are limited to what your interpretation is. You need a feedback mechanism.

If you’ve been trying to learn this stuff for a while and you’re pretty much running your head into the wall over and over again, you are not moving forward, it’s time to be honest to yourself and pull the trigger on something. VIP is an awesome way that anyone can get going and get truly immersed in a real, legitimate program.

So anyway, going back to you, Zefer, Fifteen sets a week, that’s the goal, and let me throw a few things out here, this is important. Don’t be so picky in the beginning, especially in the beginning. But even long term you might not even that picky. The main thing is get your, you get your interactions in. If it’s, for example, if it’s Thursday or Friday, you’ve only got one set in, and you see, and you’re getting a coffee to Starbucks and this girl’s like five or just average, that’s the girl, you go for her, you understand? You’re still going to learn something from her, she is still a human being, obviously. She is still going to have the same kind of potential responses, same potential to learn from, dude, she might have an amazing friend you might… you never know where that might go.

But the idea is I’m not giving you any chance to give yourself excuse, oh, there’s no one there to open. F*** that! You find somebody. So when it comes down to the end of the week, if you are running a low, then you just start opening whatever is available to you. Just have an experience and again, you know, our hope for you is not using this just for dating science, those kinds of stuffs. You’re not just using this to like meet girls and hook up and blah, blah, blah. My hope is you’re learning this because you want to engage more people, you have more fun experiences, you want to make more friends, you want to get better at interacting with people so you’re going to get that. Even with a girl that might not be normally what you’d go for. So fifteen is a minimum, you make sure it gets done one way or the other. A good way to make sure it gets done, because I am sure you have your professional life, find a way that you do it when you’re doing things you do anyway. Go to a grocery store open up a set there. You go get coffee in the morning open up a set in the morning. That awareness of what your goal is will keep you on track. Don’t let yourself get to Friday and only have one or zero sets and if you do… and if it does happen you better pick up the pace, okay?

ZEFER: Make sense.

JAMIE:            Anything else? And that’s fine, this would be like you’re intro but anything else about the program itself that I can answer for you very quickly before we go on to the next caller?

ZEFER:             Well, not really. I still need to see all the videos. I’m still in the middle of it.

JAMIE:            Then let me reaffirm this one. For you to really grasp what’s there, you really have to watch the videos as many times. I mean to even to this day, Zefer, I mean I did my booth camp a few years ago and I’ll see some of the videos from time to time, and I’ll still be blown away or I’d stare there and woohhh… I understand this now to a new level. I mean, our guys are the best guys in the world, you know. I got trained by some incredible individuals. There is nothing, like when we offer this there’s nothing like that out there. There is, it is actually very unlikely you’ll grasp it the first time. You probably have to watch those videos many times and again not to mention you also have the virtual booth camp that is included in VIP.  So did you unlock that yet?


JAMIE:            On the right side of the interactions there is something that says unlockable advanced content. You want to click that. As soon as you click that, the beginning of a ten week program begins. Every week you get a different, or every two weeks you get different lessons and in the process of ten weeks in VIP, you’ll get to experience the whole boot camp virtually. Granted that you won’t get to interact with the instructors, but at least you’ll get really A to Z as far as core, format, and material. So make sure you have to review that today, okay?

ZEFER:             Sure.

JAMIE:            And it’s something we always building on so there’s new lessons being uploaded pretty much every two weeks now. So a lot of great stuff in there but again, I want to reaffirm this, don’t rush. Those videos, there’s a lot more like Eric says, there’s more to it that meets the eye. Some of these are made to watch numerous times before you really start to wrap your head around it. Okay?

ZEFER: Okay.

JAMIE:            All right. Good. Michael, do you hear me? Michael, are you still over there? But I… oh, there you go.

MICHAEL:  Hey! I can hear you know.

JAMIE:            All right!

MICHAEL: Phone problems. Okay.

JAMIE:            All right. Rock and roll.

MICHAEL:  Okay. Hey, I have a question for you. I got a lot of a… I go to dinner with some girls and I have a lot of questions about that because I have major food allergies.

JAMIE:            Okay.

MICHAEL:  Is that a DLV if I got to do that? Because usually what I’m doing is when I go to a restaurant and I’m like hey, I don’t know if I’m coming or calling to find out what the hell I can eat. But is that DLV in-front of a girl if it goes like that?

JAMIE:            Fine. I mean, it is what it is. You are who you are. That’s not DLV. The DLV if we start going to the details what happens if you have the wrong food, right? If it’s disgusting.


JAMIE:            Don’t talk about you know.


JAMIE:            DLV is things like, an example of DLV is talking about blood, or guts, or just something that’s fucking gross, right? So she doesn’t need to hear the details. For example, if you have peanut allergy, she doesn’t need to know what happens when you have peanuts.


JAMIE:            But for someone to say I have peanut allergy, actually it’s kind of more interesting. All right, really? Since I was a kid. Okay, cool. It’s not a big deal. You understand?


JAMIE:            So yeah, that’s totally fine.

MICHAEL: Okay. Because they ask a lot of questions. I just try to shut it right down, right? Because it sounds like you’re complaining, you’re needy, and whiny, in my opinion. But, so I have that question. I do have another one if you don’t mind me hitting on it?

JAMIE:            Absolutely.

MICHAEL: Okay, I was seeing a girl and she, I don’t know, she was a master of seducing me, seducing anyone. And the guys just fall for her.

JAMIE:            Okay.

MICHAEL: She’s bats*** crazy, why… like now she is gone. She’s with I don’t know how many other guys since I moved out of the picture, whatever. But for some reason I’m like still kind of hang up on her. I don’t understand. It makes no f***ing sense to me at all. And I’m just wondering, did she trigger the emotions in me, or is it ego, or what the hell, like.

JAMIE:            This is—

MICHAEL: Is this an emotional thing?

JAMIE:            It is always an emotional thing. I mean that is always the case. How that got triggered, you know there‘s a lot of potential variables. But it’s emotional, it‘s not real. You know it’s like, there are a lot of ways to, I mean, you really open up a can of worms as far as like what that could be.  But you know, let’s put it this way, you know logically that there’s plenty of women out there that are easily as good as she is. You, do we agree on that one?

MICHAEL: Absolutely. She’s bats*** crazy.

JAMIE:            Okay, so, and good thing dude is focus on the things you actually thought were horrible. Like in… whenever I broke it up with a girl, the last I’ve seen her was the last several years. When the break ups happen it’s actually been easy. Hard, yet easy. Easy in the way that I’m very honest with myself either with the flaws or the barriers. If they have a flaw then I know it’s completely against one of the qualities I’m looking for. There’s not really too much to discuss. There’s not really too… I’m not going to have… there’s no reason to kind of wear my heart on my sleeve when I know she represents something that’s completely against what I’m looking for.

I’ll give you an example. A girl that I broke up with that, this was some time ago but just to give you an example. She didn’t, she wanted to kind of keep like a very casual boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Which is fine, I don’t mind that. But I don’t need that either. She, there was no potential of moving forward. She liked what it was but she don’t want to have any opportunity to let the relationship evolve beyond that. So my thought was well, I’m not interested in that. Like why have a monogamous relationship then. You know I don’t see the point. And when I understood, that that was genuinely how she felt, it’s not hard to break up with somebody because they told you who they are. And if you’re, if you knew by yourself and you knew who you are, and what you want, and what you require, and what’s not going to cut it; it’s not that hard to say dude, this girl is clearly not a match for me.

MICHAEL: So right.

JAMIE:            It’s not, its… when you’re very clear—have you ever taken the time to actually write, let me ask this question, have you ever taken time—we had a great call just a couple of hours ago. Have you taken the time to actually write out the things you’re looking for in a woman? Like actually on paper. The things you want, the things you must have, the things you need to have, have you ever taken the time to do that?

MICHAEL: I’ve only played it out on my head but, no.

JAMIE:            Okay. That’s incredibly valuable thing to do. Because when you see it on paper, and you have a visual, it’s like ooohhh. Okay. And it just creates a true picture of what you’re looking for and then you can see on how many different things they’re missing.


JAMIE:   And then when you start and really highlight s*** that you don’t want and that she has, and then you start seeing all the things she doesn’t have, because you weren’t like twenty thing you want in a relationship, and she has like only two, and you’re like these are the things I do not want, I don’t want, I want… I’m not holding to you with a hormone communicator, I’m not willing to deal with somebody who’s cheap and not generous, I’m not… you know you have that stuff and like well she’s cheap as f***. I have to pay for everything, she doesn’t offer, she’s a terrible communicator. When something’s wrong I have to f***in’ figure it out. When you start—

MICHAEL: Blame it.

JAMIE:            What was that?

MICHAEL: Blame it.

JAMIE:            Yeah. Yeah. I mean you get my point though? Right?


JAMIE:            All that stuff out, you know the things you want, the things you don’t want, see where she matches. And be brutally honest with it. And she’s not going to look so great anymore, that plus the obvious that there are no special butterflies out there. There are tons of women out there no matter how great anyone is. We are all replaceable, and that’s for the good or bad, or whatever. But there are plenty of women out there. They’re just as good as she in every possible way.


JAMIE:            The other thing you might want to look at to, another type of list, this is something most people do not do, you think it in your head but the one thing that very few people do is think about what’s important to you in your life, right?  Like I know what you do for work, so you have well just creative endeavors. And maybe there are certain things that are really important to you like you’re so focused right now in your creative endeavors for example.

So I looked at what her values are. What is she into? What’s important to her? Where does she focus her time and energy and money, whatever. And if these values don’t match up then even further, just a terrible case, I’ll give you example of what I mean here. Let me just illustrate this for you. Because this is something that will really help you make her unattractive where you just realized her just not person nothing special.

MICHAEL:      Yes, please.

JAMIE:            So like for me, just to illustrate that. What is important to me, I am f***ing obsessed with personal development. Obsessed with it. So I’m spending my time each day teaching, learning, practicing, and everything having to do with my coaching and my business and I am passionate about it. Dude, this is like VIP call no. 4 today. You know what I am saying like, and I enjoy every one of them. So that’s what I want to do. And you know what? I’m doing programs all the time. I don’t just teach and f***ing learn. I am a student quite a bit of a year. And guess what, man? After attending the class I just want to share what I just learned. So what if I’m with a girl that’s like I don’t want to hear that stuff, let’s just watch step-brothers or watch some stupid movie, right? She’s not going to let me share what I am so passionate about? Giving the relationship is going to work out long term?

MICHAEL: Not really, no.

JAMIE:            No—

MICHAEL: If she—

JAMIE:            Go on.

MICHAEL: If she doesn’t make you feel… after all the personal development you feel more human after all that because I’m going through that right now and I put everything I got into that right now.

JAMIE:            There you go, but the main point I’m trying to get across is does nothing about personal involvement.  Whatever it is that you love doing, you’re passionate about, you want to spend your time doing each day, whatever that happens be, I’m just giving you my examples.  That’s how I choose to spend my day all the time and it’s such an amazing thing for me and afterwards, to be honest, there’s really nothing else I really want to talk about the most part,  except for I like stupid movies and stuff like that, but I love talking about what I just learned. And I love sharing and discussing them. And what if I’m with a girl that doesn’t like any of that stuff at all? She’s like okay, just quit it with your blah, blah, blah; whatever you just learned.  She is not allowing me to be who I am so that relationship is not going to work out because our values, our common interest are just not in alignment.

I can’t be my—she would not allow me to be myself around her. So even if she was amazing in bed, that’s going to be… the shelf like is going to be very quick on that one because that’s not sustainable. I mean, I’m going to who… I mean I’m with the girl all these hours a day and I can’t even talk about what I’m really passionate about? That just sucks. So my point is.

MICHAEL: That’s right.

JAMIE:            Look at those kinds of things too because if you don’t share that stuff that’s even moreover a way to be honest to yourself. There is no fucking future there. You’re going to humanize her then.

MICHAEL: And that’s the hard lesson I’ve been learning lately and I have been focusing on cutting people out that I normally wouldn’t. Like it was always about numbers are hitting this, hitting that, and she’s hot, but now I am like, I get a little sense of the girls nagging me like that previous one that gave me all the trouble, I just got to release like instantly. Like you’re gone, that’s it, right? But you know, I’ve got a lot to learn yet, like I’m only… I feel I am only not even 10% of the way through this and everything I’ve learned from just reading the game, and like listening to you, your podcast, and all that has been unbelievable. Like it has changed me completely and like I’m just thrilled to see where it’ll takes me in the end, like I can’t even imagine the possibilities.

JAMIE:            Dude, if you knew what I knew, you might not fell asleep tonight, man. But that’s all start from the here. I am really happy to hear that and yes, one last thing I want to bring to your attention, too, there’s the other obvious thing too. Just keep expanding your options. When you’re really busy, you have a lot of great opportunity in your life. No one’s really that… you know it’s not that big of a deal anymore. You know her impact on your life is just blown a little out of proportion only because you don’t have enough at this point I am assuming you don’t have enough options. You might have a couple but if you have someone’s you’re really excited about, going on you’re not really going to care so much anymore. It’s not that big of a deal. You know what I am saying? So the more you keep expanding your options the more that will really, I got to fade her to black so to speak.

MICHAEL: Right. Exactly.

JAMIE:            But a lot of people recommend doing that? I just want to clear, a lot of people recommend doing what I said last, that’s kind of a more of a short term thing. Just to be very clear here. That’s kind of more of a b*** s*** plus solution. You know go, just go—


JAMIE:            Just go hook up with a million girls and you will be fine. That’s not true.

MICHAEL: That’s not helping.

JAMIE:            That’s not true. It will help somewhat—


JAMIE:            It will keep you busy and it will keep you so you’re not just thinking about her that part is true, but the real thing here that you want to work on and you and I are going to work on this together is part of our VIP which is a… it’s a full blown personal development program. If you want to talk about pick up and dating science, that’s awesome that’s the core of the  questions, but we do a lot of stuff beyond that so what you’re going to want to focus on the thing that’s going to be the real solution, just like if someone tells you of high blood pressure. High blood pressure is not a disease; high blood pressure is a symptom of a real disease. Following me?  So the real issue is that emotional attachment and learning how to release yourself from that emotional attachment and that is more on the lines of us talking about prior.

So one of the easiest thing to do is when you have an irrational emotional attachment to somebody, and also you bring obvious and logic and just like obviousness of the situation, the picture, like for example in mine, like dude, I’m really into personal development. This girl hates personal development. She’s not in here for any of it. That’s not going to work out very well. Dude, I want a girl that’s a great communicator, but this girl doesn’t f***ing even tell me jack s***. I just have to pry everything from her. That’s not going to work out. So as soon as you start seeing the flaws, right? You start seeing that, because you’re clear with yourself what you want and what you don’t want. And you see how f***ed up she matches up with it, it becomes pretty clear that it’s just not going to work out. It’s easy to let go.

See, right now you’re attachment emotionally is rational. And what I’m helping you is create a mechanism to rationalize it.  She’s not that great. I mean to know her, I’m not that great, nobody is that great. We’re f***ing human beings. Like you know or you know, we’re all the same. We’re all looking for love, we’re all looking to avoid pain. We are all really f***ing similar. So you know, the idea is you know… find somebody that is really on the same page as you. Wants the same things, wants the same experiences. This girl’s nuts! I can’t… I don’t want to do with somebody who has emotional issues. I’m sure you don’t either. So…

MICHAEL: Constantly nagging you.

JAMIE:            Yeah. So—

MICHAEL: That was the hardest thing. Like I wish I had been through your program before because, man. When they come at you, when they’re like that they’re like a narcissist and they got all the negs and they are intelligent? That’s a tough thing to handle because I’m a reactionary person. I’m trying to rewire my brain to not be reactionary and learn these new skills that I’m trying to develop.

JAMIE: Well that takes time. So be patient, like I told you, I was [inaudible] about three to six months before they start seeing a significant quantitative improvement as well as their behaviors and mannerisms, right? Cause remember you’re undoing—


JAMIE:            Years of bad habits. It’s not easy to rewire yourself a certain way. Because—

MICHAEL: You talk about triggering the five emotions in a girl. Well like I watched my dad triggering all the wrong emotions so that’s what I know, right?  Reprogramming.

JAMIE:            Yeah. I’ll tell you one good thing… I’ll tell you one thing here. The things really worth considering, can actually be worth appreciative for. You know, what you said a second ago, is similar to what I said, you know, ah, I wish I knew about boot camps and blah, blah, blah years ago. Wow, wish I’d gone to coaching years ago, you know. It’s a very similar thing you say. But the truth of the matter is that in some ways is a gift. Because when you get what you’re looking for you’ll really appreciate it.


JAMIE:            Best lines ever from the movie, Vanilla Sky, “The sweetest is not as sweet without the sour.” So your awareness of what you don’t want is going to make you that much more appreciative of what you do want when you get it.


JAMIE:            So I’d already be it’s actually— I mean in my personal life, I’m going to talk in behalf of myself. In my personal life experience I would not have had it in any other way. I feel like I’m on this epic journey and the pain and difficulties that I went through when I was younger only makes me that much more appreciative of what I’m doing now.


JAMIE:            So, I say it’s a gift.

MICHAEL: Better late than never.

JAMIE:            Yeah. Yeah. Hey, every passing moment has transformed all around, man. So, are they… are you… it sounds like you’re in the right track, you got the right attitude, and yeah, focus on the emotional aspect of this girl, and you’ll be on the right track. And there’s a lot of tools, so keep working on that, okay.

MICHAEL: Thanks a lot, man.

JAMIE:            You’re welcome. Let’s see who else we got here. Adam, you there?

ADAM:            Yeah, I’m here.

JAMIE:            All right, man.

ADAM:            So, you know what? I had been so busy with work, man. I didn’t get any sets this week. And I took a trip last weekend with a girl so I didn’t get any sets there either. Sorry, man. I don’t have anything to report I was hoping to get them this weekend but the call of pay, so.

JAMIE:            Okay. So I just want to reaffirm one thing, the idea of the fifteen, right? One thing that’s suppose to be some weeks, you know, it’s going to happen you don’t reach that for whatever reason. That’s okay. But I want that to be like a real trigger for you, where you’re like hey, it’s Friday, I got one. I got zero. I don’t ever want you to… there’s no reason that you’ll ever have a zero I’ll tell you why, Adam. And I get it, you’ve got some stuff going on. And you have that trip with a girl. Awesome! But there’s no reason that you’ll ever have a zero the reason for that is this. Is that, if you get into the point where it’s Thursday, and you got zero sets? That’s really a trigger for you better get something going. And the idea is always dude, no matter how busy you are, you’re always going to find yourself in certain places where you can easily kind of know extra time it.

We are basically I’m getting a cup of coffee, f*** I got zero sets this week. It’s Thursday, I see kind of an okay girl over there, she’s like a five, f*** it, I’m going to get my conversation now. You just find a way. You find a way, even though you’re busy, when you’re doing things you have to do anyway. You’re having dinner, you’re having dinner anyway, you might as well open up a set. You’re getting coffee, you’re having coffee anyway, you might as well open up a set.

There’s no reason you ever come in with zero for that reason because you can always combine it with what you’re doing anyway. And use that number fifteen as like that trigger that said, ih, ih, ih… okay, I better do something. Let’s just kind of lower my, let’s lower the standards a little bit, just have some interactions to really keep moving forward. Don’t be like that, oh, I needed a nine and there’s no nine around? F*** it got, the five is good, if that’s going to keep you on track, so next if that ever happens again and it’s Thursday you got zero, start, just let that get a bit extra awareness to you so that when it’s Thursday you’re not just as picky and just go for whatever when you’re doing the things you do anyway. Does that make sense?

ADAM:            Yeah. Absolutely make sense and I don’t have an excuse for it. There was a couple of sets that I could have done, it’s just… yeah.. I don’t have an excuse aside from my mind was in other places, so—

JAMIE:            Okay.

ADAM:            No, I understand exactly what you’re saying.

JAMIE:            Beautiful. Just never risk with coming with a zero, I’m leaving it at that. You know like, if that’s like the fifteen thing is what alerts you or whatever, at least that, if you don’t make the fifteen, so be it. Fifteen is always the goal, but you should at least get one. And if you think of it like that with stuff doing it with things you are already doing anyway, you’ll find a way. I’ve got confidence in you that will not be an issue in the future. I want to help you. Remember, ultimately I want to help you. And I want to have stuff to talk about with you so if I don’t have that that doesn’t make me feel very good.

ADAM:            Gotcha.

JAMIE:            All right. So

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