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TAY 172: Don’t wing it talking to girls

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Today’s podcast we talked about the importance of not winging it. We also role played various scenarios of an interaction from A1 to A2. Lastly we discussed the key to making your A2 routines hit.

JAMIE: All right, let’s do it. Abnosa [00:00:41], you have a lot of post standard form. And that alone, I mean it’s pretty impressive I think your work ethic how much your putting out there on the form and that’s like a serious student. Just all that journaling, reflecting… that’s going to serve you really, really well so just from seeing that I know you have probably a few things to go over so yeah, throw it out there, what do you want to start with?

ABNOSA: Sweet. Yeah. I was curious if you could go over like I feel like I understand all of the pieces of the interaction like, by themselves, like the opener, post time constraint, all these stuff. Buying temperature… but I’m kind of like confused on how to actually all fits in a real life conversation? So I wonder if you could go over like—okay, see three girls standing there, how does the conversation actually play out and I know it’s not going to be obviously the exact same every time but what I’m kind of looking is an example of like, okay, you open with this, they say this, then you transition with this or whatever.

JAMIE:            Okay. We’ll do this in a very general sense, because the thing is there’s a lot of twists and turns if there’s a three set, two set, girl by herself. There’s so many variables but what we try to do at least in the beginning, is give you the kind of like a broad strokes to kind of handle the vast majority. So if you’re going to open up a group set you might have like one standard opener used. For example, hey, I just have to come over and say hello. You guys just seem like you have really great energy. Okay. So that would be your opener. That would be a standard opener that I might use over, and over, and over, and over again. Okay. You following me?

ABNOSA: Yeah. See you in go. Can you recommend on what set?

JAMIE:            I could. I mean if it’s like a high energy… okay, here’s the thing. If it’s a high energy night club and girls are on red alert, it is a little—it can be a little riskier because they’re going to… if, at other times they think you’re hitting on them you’re definitely going to assume just by default, the fact you’re coming over that there is that. So there is more of a chance that you can get more of like a s*** test, or some kind of a cheeky kind of response back. That’s possible. But remember what we do is it’s not about the opener anyway. You always have to be prepared for something that’s not exactly desirable. But the idea is that you’re prepared to handle that. Right? I mean—


JAMIE:            For example, the girls respond back like, oh, its girls night, we’re not talking to any guys tonight, or no we have horrible energy. You have various responses you’ll use if that comes up. Now I don’t want to over complicate this here so we’re going to assume just for your question that we’re going to get really good responses, okay.


JAMIE:            Okay. So let’s just say they kind of smile and you know they offered some level of warmth. The one thing that’s almost never going to do is almost never going to really take over the conversation for you, that’s your job. So you then like—


JAMIE:            A stack forward with some kind of a continuation of your cold read. You guys have like this West Coast vibe. Now when you do that, more often than not, I’d  say maybe eight out of ten times, they will offer something back either confirming or denying your cold read. No we are actually from L.A. No we’re not, we’re from New York. Depending now with their responses, you then stack forward to a pre-prepared, oh, my god! Get this story. Now at this point you’re still engaging the entire group, you following me? So they’re all there.

ABNOSA: Right.

JAMIE:            You’re not giving anyone anymore your attention engaging them as a whole. Does everything sound clear so far?

ABNOSA: Yes. So, my one question then is like, okay, so I could see how you could have like a pretend story for like the West Coast.

JAMIE:            Mm-hm.

ABNOSA: What if like, oh, I’m from like a random state, like you’re not going to have obviously like you know 50 pre-camp stories feel like each day. So how does that work?

JAMIE: So what—there’s not one way to do this. I’m just going to give you an option.


JAMIE:            I myself might have like three areas I really cross my fingers to get there from. Hopefully California hits, or East Coast, or something like that, right? But if they’re not from any of those areas, I might just say something like, wow that’s interesting, I have friends from there. You seem different. And then I’ll make kind of extended cold read. You seem like you have a good sense of humor, and I’ll do kind of a one size fits all A2 piece that has nothing to do with anything regardless where they’re from. Make sense?

ABNOSA: Yeah. I got you.

JAMIE:            Or I might say, oh, that’s interesting, wait a second. Are you guys’ best friends? You guys make the same facial expression. So I will use different A2P’s to stack forward. Make sense? Or I’ll just totally drop that one.  I’ve two question—

ABNOSA: You’ve gone ahead like three kind of like flow chart items to go down. If it doesn’t hit any of those and you have a back up just like heads roll.

JAMIE:            Yeah, yeah. Kind of like a catch shell. The best friends one is really great if it’s a big group. So I’ll evoke at the responses like, no, we’re actually from the Midwest, we’re form Iowa. Wait, hold on a second, are you guys best friends, you guys make the same facial expression? So I might just then jump forward with the best friends test, right? The best friends test would be a good example of kind of a catch shell that is going to plot, that you could translate how they’re reacting to you as some indication that they’re best friends. Remember that its misinterpretation you’re doing a lot. You’re like, wait, this thing is like a West Coast vibe. You really have no reason to believe that necessarily but you’re just going to assume that because of X. So I don’t necessarily, I might necessarily know whether or not they are best friends but I’m just going to assume that because so and so made a facial expression that look like so and so and hence I’ll just use the very eloquently put—wait a second, you’re using the same facial expressions. Make sense?

ABNOSA: Yeah. I’ve used that one. Seems to work pretty well.

JAMIE:            Yes, so have a catch shell like that. Still from there, now I’m doing a fun routine that’s the main idea. The main idea what we’re trying to get to as quickly as possible is A2, your demonstration of instant value. I think that’s a better way to put it. Where basically you’re showing them very quickly you have something more to offer than almost everyone else. You’re teaching them something about them self, they’re having fun, they’re learning a little, fun little tidbit. You’re enhancing your experience. And they will then see you as value. After you do that they’re having fun with you, right? They’re kind of at a high point. They’re laughing, giggling; oh that’s funny, blah, blah, blah. Then it would be reasonable to kind of get down toddle a bit and say, so how do you guys know each other? Remember you’re just talking about a best friends test anyway so kind of makes sense, but either way—

ABNOSA: But the best friends test is that the piece that you’re talking about where you’re teaching them something? Or that…

JAMIE:            Yeah. Yeah. A2 is basically an offering that has some level of entertainment value. You’re raising their buying temperature. You’re making them have fun, laugh, giggle, you’re offering some level of entertainment and you got to be careful on this one, even your A2 stories, have you used the story about, oh, my god! Get this, I just got back from LA or California, your story better be good, better be entertaining because they don’t give a s*** about your stupid story if it doesn’t offer something. Make sense?


JAMIE: Be careful of that so that’s why and that is the hardest parts of what this is, that’s why no one does this in a silo, and on that note, to anyone listening here, its probably one of the biggest things you’re probably missing and why you’re not having success because you’re trying to do this stuff in a silo, you’re trying to learn how to create masterful stories, well guess what? In the entertainment world, that’s why they have story writers. Doing this by yourself is just not realistic, so if you’re interested in learning more about what we’re talking about here please hit us up. VIP is a phenomenal program where you’ll get this type of interaction as well as real next steps that you’re currently not doing.


JAMIE:            So, continue onwards.


JAMIE:            The idea is you’re offering something of value. Now the best friends test is one oh one’s that are really good to use because you’re not taking the error out of your hands like this is a proven routine that will work. Long term, you want to be able to use your own stories, your own little fun buying temperature stories, but the idea just because a lot of people think they know this concepts but you want to know really what the mechanics are, what is the purpose. The purpose is that you’re trying to elevate your emotional state above where they are currently at. If they see you as somebody who’s offering value, then they are much more likely to answer your questions that are going to come soon. Make sense?


JAMIE:            All right.

ABNOSA: So after the—because here’s where I get stuck a lot, is my only like things like, okay cold read, and then have a story after. So I’m just kind of like stacking that but then it’s kind of like it’s just kind of seems like it’s me talking a lot and eventually they kind of get bored and it stalls up.

JAMIE:            That’s okay. Dude, how many times have I told you this? And to anyone listening here, it’s very clear from the beginning, this is not an easy thing to learn. You will get it. It’s inevitable, dude, you have some incredible tools here and you’re going to get guided along the way but right now, you’ll work with what you got. So the idea is you come into these calls, the VIP calls, and you go over these things and we show you what you’re missing. Why they started to kind of get bored and kind of roll their eyes. Often times and here’s the main pitfalls to look for. One, you’re telling a story that your friends think is funny, your guy friends. Guy humor and girl humor is different.

Guys probably don’t want to talk about who lies more, men or women? Or who’s kissing and cheating. But girls do. Know your audience, understand? So often times its just picking topics that are just not, they’re just not suiting who your audience is. That’s the first, that’s one pitfall. Let me think of another one I want to kind of bring to your attention. The other one too is guys usually talk in terms of facts. So I went to the bar, or way sorry I went to this wedding and I saw my friend and my friend said hello. You know that’s just boring you have to make sure that, that’s how guys talk to each other, facts. Fact one, I did this, fact two, I did that.

What really makes the story interesting is that character development like the, you’re expecting this but, boom happens. Something different and you really, that’s why  again you’re got to start to work on your stories and make sure that they really are engaging even if you have a million DHB spikes, which are demonstrations of higher value showing that you have something to offer, if it’s presented in a boring way, nobody f***ing cares because remember there at the bar to have fun and enjoy themselves, and they’re going to look for what is going to enhance their experience that night, so that’s really what’s happening there and that’s okay.

You’re going to get better at it, because what’s going to happen is you’re going to get better stories and you’re going to get better at delivering those stories so they become engaging. So this is a process you just have to allow yourself to fail before you succeed. You know, right now you’re getting some good experiences, you have a little bit more of a shortcut in the A2 phase because in A2, in the beginning at least, you can use some of the proven material that really will work. It’s simply a matter of do you deliver properly. That’s it and that just comes from practice. Clear?

ABNOSA: Yes. How do I practice delivery? Do I just do it over and over or is there like people I should watch to emulate, you know what I mean?

JAMIE: Yeah! Do in VIP.

ABNOSA: Same wrong over and over I guess.

JAMIE:          No, that’s okay. In the video is VIP watch the way our guys Erik, James and Chris deliver this stuff, you know. And in the virtual boot camp area, watch how Jason, and by the way Jason is on a call here so I don’t know if Jason kind of caught the beginning of what you were—of what we’re talking about.

JASON:          I’m caught up about… I had a couple inside some storytelling and what not, but I can go after you.

JAMIE:          And you know, jump in because I think that’s really going to help things here, so yeah you got something you want to throw out there, dude, go for it.

JASON: Yeah, okay. Let me see something.  Okay. So, you were asking about storytelling and keeping and engaging, right?


JASON: Okay, well, see the story telling, one thing to keep in mind is at the beginning of the interaction you keep the story short because you haven’t, she’s not invested enough to stay for a really long story.  Now as you start hooking the set or getting more into it, there are a couple of things to keep in mind.  Your story, you want a beginning, middle, and end. You want a climax and a resolution.  Think of any story, any movie, anything, you want to           be able to create that effect.  Does that concept made sense?


JASON:            Now, with that set, you’re delivery, right?  Well, when you’re delivering, you want to add the details, the emotions. If I may, if I’m talking about someone getting upset with me, I’ll make a very like upset, angry face to kind of get really into the story like Jamie said, men and women communicate different.  We communicate more like, hey, how was your day? Oh! It was good, how about yours? Good.  Guess in the women’s mind, if you communicate like that they almost interpret as you’re like withholding information.  They want the details, they want, they want to know about the drama, the conflict, all those like, emotional turbulent interactions like that. That drama, I guess it goes back to that drama. You want to be able to embed that in your story. Does that—

ABNOSA: Okay. Yeah, like I get that from a logical point of view, but like actually performing it and doing it, I don’t think I could just—

JASON:           Okay.

ABNOSA: I’ll be like, oh, yeah. We went to the beach blah, blah ..  Yeah! I was so angry, and then it’ll just come off like, oh, he’s trying to like act like, you know what I mean?  Is there like in field videos somewhere, where I could like watch it in action because I feel like I would understand it better if I saw it actually in action.

JASON:           How was your… what did you do today?

ABNOSA: Today?

JASON: Yeah.

ABNOSA: Woke up, ate breakfast, worked out.

JASON:           Good!  That’s a perfect day to me but, the way you were portraying this to let’s say you’re—you open a set at the gym like, “Man, I had the craziest day today, right? I woke up and I’m trying to get some oatmeal, right? You know, I got to get my carbs or whatnot and the freakin’ scoop is gone. So I have to like, stick my whole hand in there and look for it, it turned out I left it on the sink.” It’s something dumb, but I just gave you enough details to be like, oh, so he did this, this, this and this and that was just one part of the breakfast. Does that concept make sense?

ABNOSA: Yeah! So how did you think of it? How would you have thought of it, you know?

JASON:           I just made it up right now.  Man, I went to the gym and you’re not going to believe what I saw. There was this guy on the treadmill eating a tub of ice cream. That’s something I fantasized about doing for weeks.

ABNOSA: Okay, see like that’s like a funny story. But how do I develop that in myself because if you did say exact think of a funny story from the gym, I would have been like, you know, I went to the gym and yeah there’s this guy doing bicep curls and  he’s looking really, really intense, and it would have been super lying. You know what I mean?

JASON:           And then?

ABNOSA: Like how did you think of the ice cream thing?

JASON:           And then, we accidentally made eye contact, and you know I don’t want to say this is my first gay experience, but I think that will be my first experience.

ABNOSA: Okay, yeah! How did you think of that?

JASON:           Honestly, it just comes from doing it, and doing it, and doing it. There’s books that you can read, which are like—there’s this book called comedy writing secrets or something that talks about it, but a lot of it really is just for me going out and talking to women and figuring out what humor works for them and what doesn’t. It’s very—I’ve noticed for women its very like surface level fun, humor, and then with some girls you can get to that really like crude humor that I personally like, because for me it build tons of rapport real fast if the girl can joke with me at that level. But if it doesn’t, I stay at that surface level and just kind of calibrate how deep I can go into it depending on the interaction and the level of connection we’re building. Does that make sense, it’s like a calibration thing?


JASON:           But in order to develop your humor-humor, watch standup comedy, I’d say read books on comedy writing, and then just talking to women really and like if you think about this, every time you make her laugh, write down what you said, and how you said it that made her laugh. And be like, okay, so this comment right here made her laugh. If I say this comment again to ten girls, and at least seven of them laugh, I think that’s a routine stack to add to my routine manual on humor.


JASON:           Ours developing really is just practice. Getting yourself in that funny mindset and then also, if you really notice the opening story, it wasn’t very funny at all; I just made it sound interesting because of the way I deliberately slow down my words.

ABNOSA: Mm-hm. Okay. So what’s like a good—should I stick to it like learn more generator for the exercise just hit it, to have a word and it’s like try to tell a story about it like is that—I’m trying to learn the process to develop—

JAMIE:            Let’s do this actually. Jason, if you don’t mind because we have to let the other callers go. Maybe just kind of give him like a next step, something simple for him to do because I know this is going to go into so many questions. Give him the next step of your version; I’ll give him my version. Give him something to really work towards the week. The thing we really have to hit home for you is, the s***s not easy. You got to allow yourself to do some exercise. There’s a process, right? So, why we don’t just give him some good next steps for the next week or two things to practice?

JASON:         Mm-hm.

JAMIE:            And summarize at really quick maybe three-bullet thing. I’ll give it three bullet. This so we can get the other caller to go to, okay?

JASON:           Okay! One thing I want to tell you to do is think of oatmeal for example. What’s funny about oatmeal. Oh, I had troubles with scooping, lost. You just make up brand new things. I tried to serve myself like one portion and it spills to everywhere. As soon as I open the bottle it disintegrate and it gets all over my kitchen and now I’m stuck cleaning for half an hour. So I just created that word, the oatmeal, and I was able to make three, four scenarios that come off as pretty humorous.

ABNOSA: Gotcha!

JASON:           Does that make any sense?

ABNOSA: Yes. So just take a random word and then try to think of make a funny script about it.

JASON:         Yeah. Those are some first steps.


JAMIE: Okay. Let me just add to that just to give you some more steps to do. At the core of things you want to be fascinated with your own material. In the end, you’re never going to be able to tell one of our stories or can stories as well it can potentially tell something that you really lived. So the understanding is not really write this one down here. Erik says it really well. You want to be fascinated with your own material. Okay? You following me? That’s the core, if you’re not fascinated with your material, if you’re like, if you’re not speaking from the position of  I almost can even believe my life that I lived this and now I’m able to tell at that level of vigor and enthusiasm was probably not a good story for you. But for example, even the best friends test is a f***ing cool little thing to do, oh, my god, wait a second—are you guys best friends? You guys make the same facial expressions. You heard that in my voice?

ABNOSA: Mm-hm.

JAMIE:            It’s interesting its fun that needs to be the core driver of your delivery, makes sense?


JAMIE: Yeah, if you go back to what Jason was saying about the oatmeal, he seemed really fascinated with trying to find the scoop and where were the f*** is this f***ing thing? You know like so it’s that’s what you’re trying to do. You can take anything that’s boring but if you truly enjoyed or fascinate or just like almost enamored with your life and people can hear than in your voice? That’s powerful. So remember that. That’s the core, that’s the driver, that’s your engine. Now the next step for you I think will help you is find a couple of models of people that do this and see what they do and try mimic it. So in VIP there is tons of, actually Eric, James, all of them do tons of little stories or sound bites and if you watch the way they do it remember in the core I guarantee at some level they’re actually fascinated with it. For example, one of them in VIP, there’s this one bit where I think Eric goes, dude, look at all these stars? My God there are billions of them! You following me? It’s stupid.


JAMIE: But it is fascinating, I mean like I download this app that I showed to a friend of mine a few days ago, it’s incredible. You can actually for what’s it called though, I’ll tell you later if you want, amazing for 2 dollars you can actually during the day, night, whatever you can point this app anywhere in the sky and how about this, man you can point at the ground too I almost forgot sometimes that stars blow as too. Isn’t that incredible? And you can see all of them right now. You see what I’m saying?


JAMIE:            So the idea is you take some of this example and just remember in the background, they are fascinated with that. I mean even if you heard me talking about this stupid app, I really think it’s amazing I think it’s… like this is not bullshit and I think it’s a truly, probably the coolest dollar ninety nine I’ve ever spent. You following me?


JAMIE: So step one, remember that if the core, these people are fascinated with their own stories. Jason was fascinated with his oatmeal and finding the scoop. Two, get a couple of examples. There’s tons of them there really are in VIP, whether it’s in a virtual bootcamp or in the actual core of the timeline of the interaction. There are tons of examples, man. Watch that, mimic it. Dude, I was even watching a video the other day with the Crocodile Hunter’s Son. Dude, he keep bringing up all these animals and every single one—this is amazing and you really seem like you were just so fascinated with it, you know what I’m saying? So mimic people that really are just enamored with their life and just are so entertained it’s like you’re fascinated with your own stories. Step three, again this are, this is going to take you months by the way, step three, start practicing it and see how people respond to you. Try start with the best friends test, try to be fascinated with it like, dude, isn’t this incredible. If the girl, whoever looks first, that’s the one who is submissive in the relationship. Isn’t that amazing? Try it, but you need to feel it. You get it?


JAMIE: All right. Good chat though, great question. Let’s go on to the next person here. Jake, yours okay?

JAKE:  Yes, I do.

JAMIE:          All right, man, fire away. I’ll let Jason go first and I’ll try in if necessary but go for it.

JAKE: Actually, I do not have the [inaudible] I mean these days I’m dating with a very great mate in daytime, I opened her by doing date game and she’s like demanding it a lot and she want to be serious. She wants to be in a serious relationship, and she’s asking me to let her know where I go, and what I do something like that. But I don’t know. I really felt sometimes she buys me a great dinner and she give me presents.

JAMIE:            Lots of change for you huh?

JAKE:  I don’t know.

JAMIE:            Look at this man, that’s great. You’ve been getting gifts, you get wined and dined, not bad, huh, Jake? You didn’t care for this within the last year, and look at you?

JAKE: Yeah, it’s been easy.

JAMIE:            It’s what you call, rich people problems.

JAKE: I don’t know, dude. In this stage like [inaudible]. I don’t want to hurt her, but I don’t know.

JASON:           Well, let me ask you something. Do you want to be in a relationship?

JAKE: Yes, I do.

JASON: Then, this is not a problem.

JAKE: Yeah, but sometimes, I am not open up to her as well. I don’t date but I think it’s wrong. Well, so do you think its okay to meet, to date multiple girls?

JASON: Well, that’s what matters here. She wants a serious committed relationship, is that what you want?

JAKE:  I’d said yes but I have to think about it. I mean I said it to her but I think I should think about it more.

JASON: Well, here’s my take on it. It’s really, it depends on the agreement you with the woman like, for example, if you have a relationship but you talked to the girl about it like, hey, look, we’re together and blah, blah, blah. But I’m also talking to other people. That’s one way. Another way is you can just be in a relationship and see where it goes. Another option is, you could tell her like, I want to be in a relationship and still keep talking to her. So it really, that’s what I’m trying to figure out is what you want. Do you want just this girl or do you want this girl and still be talking to other girls.

JAKE: Actually, I want this girl, and I still want to talk with other girls but, yeah, that’s in my mind but I don’t feel it’s wrong.

JASON: Well, I think it’s about your boundaries. So, let’s say you’re with this girl, right?

JAKE:   Mm-hm

JASON: At what point does it become incorrect? If this girl is your girlfriend.

JAKE: Right.

JASON:           Like you happen to be with another girl and you’re texting her, is that crossing that boundary for you where you feel uncomfortable?

JAKE:   No. Not really.

JASON: Now, if you’re hooking up with another girl and this girl is your girlfriend, does  that cross a boundary?

JAKE:   Yes, maybe.

JASON: So, that’s where you need to decide what you want from this. Does that make sense?

JAKE:   Yes.

JASON: You’re like, okay, I’m satisfied with only dating this girl as look as I can still keep you know picking up with the girls and get numbers and met people. Then you can have that if you nerd planet to hook up with all the different girls that’s hooking from around, it’s almost like inevitably it’s going to happen where girls going to bring up like, you know, where are we, what’s going on, what’s the relationships status. And from there, that’s when you take the almost like a risk of, okay, if I tell her the truth or at least a version of the truth, she might leave me. You could go and tell her I’m really focused on something else and takes up a lot of my time and I can’t give you all the commitment or whatever time that you want from me. And that you being honest but this other thing that’s taking up your time could be another woman. Does that make sense?

JAKE: Yes, it is.

JASON:           You’re being honest but you’re not lying to her in telling her you’re not the only girl I’m talking to and it is just you and we’re dating exclusively.

JAKE:   Okay.

JASON: Does that make sense like does that okay for you or do you want me to explain it in a different way?

JAKE:   Yes. No. I mean, it make sense.

JASON: It’s your personal boundaries

JAKE:   Right. I think she think I’ll be by myself, or maybe.

JAMIE:            Okay? So Jake you’re satisfied with that? Is that your, do we have a next step for you now?

JAKE:   Yeah. I need the next step I think.

JAMIE: Well your next step is at least clarity in knowing what you want. That is eventually the next step. So, is that helpful for now?

JAKE:   Yes.

JASON: Another thing to keep in mind Jake, is you don’t owe—

JAKE: Uh-huh

JASON: You don’t owe this girl anything; you don’t owe anyone but yourself. Just because—

JAKE:   Mm-hm.

JASON: Well like she slept with you and she bought you food, it doesn’t mean she owns you and you don’t owe her anything.

JAKE:   Oh!

JASON: You’re free to walk away at any point if there’s something that you don’t like. Don’t ever feel like that sense of commitment that you have to give something back. Where like they own you in some way, does that make sense?

JAKE:   Yeah, it makes sense.

JASON:           You don’t owe anyone anything, you know it’s just really what’s going to be more ecological for you.

JAKE: Yeah. Actually I thought I owe her something. Okay.

JAMIE:            Let’s see one last thing then kind of close up then. You know the truth is Jake, you don’t owe anyone anything in this life. Doesn’t mean you don’t treat people wonderful and give them your heart and soul and are genuine, those are two different things here, but no one owes anyone anything. The truth is the only thing people are loyal to is, their values. You might not like this answer but she is matching up with you because she sees your values matching up with her values. But which I say all of a sudden like maybe I am just going to throw something out for example, Let’s just say one of her values is she wants a guy that’s really very secure, works hard, and doing things to help the family or a family might be working towards the future. So she sees your value match up with hers. So what if all of a sudden you start sleeping in and you go out with your friends a little too much and you start to miss work, calling in sick, you think she’s going to stay with you? You think she’s going to be loyal to you? When you values start changing?

JAKE:  Hmm.

JAMIE:            She’s going to be like f***ing sayonara, understand? So you’re going to be a weight is going to be taken off your chest and you realized no one owes anyone anything in this life. If you want to do nice things to people you do because you want to do it. Don’t do it with an agenda like I’m going to do this for you but now you owe me that. And the same go the other way either. You have great relationship with people, experiences people, you do nice things for people because you want to do it, not because they owe you anything. And as the reverse is true too they want to do something for you they have no right to expect anything from you. It’s a pace as you go kind of relationship in life. As long as people… you’re going to tie yourself with people, where you guys understand each other, you both benefit from the relationship, its give and take. But if it’s all give, give, give or all take, take, take that’s not going to workout and as soon as it changes to that that other person’s going to leave. You understand? This is not a bad thing what I’m saying. This is actually one of the greatest things. You’re going to be so free if you really embrace the [inaudible] here because you’re just going to do nice things to people because you want to do it not because you owe anyone f***ing anything. And when they don’t give you something, you’ll be totally okay with it. So that’s the way you ultimately want to be, why should the reverse be true? Make sense?


JAMIE:            Think about that. Be selfish in some ways because if you’re selfish then you’re not going to be resentful, you’re not going to hold something against her because you’re not living a life you want to live. And you were saying you should be with her because you want to be with her because she, for a lack of a better phrase during the [inaudible] now completes you. If you don’t feel like that then don’t f***ing do it. You don’t owe her your life, she doesn’t owe you her like either though. Again the exact opposites true she has every right at any point that she feels like she’s not benefiting equally from the relationship, she has the absolute right to disappear and she doesn’t owe you anything either. And let’s going to summarize by saying again this is a beautiful, in my opinion this is a beautiful way to live because you just do nice wonderful things to people, you share with people not because you want anything back because you just like to do it, because you want to give something, because you want to have an experience. Anyway, I’m not sure if that resonates—

JAKE: Right.

JAMIE:            With you but it’s my, it’s the way I think about things and it works for me so that good?

JAKE: Okay. Yeah, it feels good.

JAMIE:            All right. Mr. Upgrade.

UPGRADE: Yeah, hi.

JAMIE:            Hey, man.

UPGRADE: Yeah. I thought it was a real helpful to listen to these calls and I kind of think what my problem is that I haven’t been consistent in doing the same material over and over.

JAMIE:            Mm-hm.

UPGRADE: So, for example here, one situation that came up was I met someone on the train and we were talking for a while and I trim a couple of routines but it was within a lot of small talk and we probably talked for 20 or 25 minutes until the train arrived. And at that point I figured out I should just go for it and seeif I could get her to meet me again and because she, at that point she was going to meet some friends so I couldn’t go with her at that particular time. And I kind of asked her if she wanted to meet up the next day and she said that she has a lot of stuff to do and so she didn’t want to. But the thing is I guess it’s hard to really know if at some point she mentioned she had a partner and I don’t know if she just said that or if it was true. But  I kind of self-analyzed this and I think it comes on to that I haven’t really been using exactly the same material on like several women so I can see like a pattern it seems more like random what’s happening in the start in the interaction. Would you agree with that that that’s probably initiative—

JAMIE:            Jason will it be okay if I respond for this one I’ll be quick. Is that okay with you?

JASON:           Yeah. Mm-hm.

JAMIE:            So same thing what we’re talking about before, hope you got to be at the beginning of the call here. You got to know who your audience is.


JAMIE:            She doesn’t want small talk. She wants value that’s what everyone wants but she particularly, she’s looking for value. Dude, there’s this great picture I saw the other day, this image. Let me see if I can find it real quick. I want to read it to you here. It was by this website called word porn or something like it. Like when they say things they post on Facebook. I’m going to read this to you  but this is the truth man, and then I’m going to parallel for you  and show you how, what we teach you really gives on that so I’m going to read this to you here. This is like a word porn or whatever. “I hate small talk. I want to talk about Adam, death, alien, and sex, magic, intellect, the meaning of life, far away galaxies, the lies you’ve told, your flaws, your favorite sense, your childhood, what keeps you up at night, and security and fears. I like people with depth, who speak with emotion from a twisted mind. I don’t want to know what’s up.”  Do you hear me?


JAMIE:            No one wants small talk. That’s the reality. And that’s the irony, people are afraid to go beyond small talk because it’s… you’re putting yourself out there but the real truth is they don’t want that so now let’s go to—


JAMIE:          Let’s go to proven stuff, the stuff that you need to start doing consistently. You open, hey wait a second, you guys best friends? Oh, my god! You guys the same facial expression. No one f***ing talks like that! Do you understand? You’re offering values—


JAMIE:            So quickly that’s what you want to be doing.


JAMIE:          Makes sense?


JAMIE:          Okay, I’m done. That’s my only point. I had to say that, Jason, you go for it.

JASON:         Well along with that, you got to keep the interaction interesting again value, value, value. It always goes back to value. Why should she continue talking to you, you know, what are you bringing in to her world that would make her want to pursue you?


JASON:         You know if she wants someone to talk about her day she can go talk to one of her girlfriends.


JASON:         She wants someone that’s going to, basically cover all those fields that Jamie talked about from that picture meme.


JASON:         She wants to laugh, she wants to be enticed, she wants to be able to go home and think back at that conversation and smile.


JASON:         You have to be able to create that for her. This whole thing pickup and I’m going to learn a couple of—it’s not about that. It’s about just being, I mean, the way I see it after a while it’s just comes down to just being so good yourself as a person that they can’t say no, like, they would be kicking themselves if they chose not to a pursue relationship or interaction with you.


JASON:         So, how you are you going to make her feel that way?

UPGRADE: Yeah. I don’t know? Good stories I guess.

JASON:         Okay, so great stories, write that down. What else are you going to do?

UPGRADE: I have to talk like other people don’t talk. Be different.

JASON:         Okay. In what way? To make it faster the trick is—


JASON:         Interesting and funny. You can teach her something.


JASON:         You’re adding value. If you can make her laugh.


JASON:         You’re adding value. If you can trigger emotions, you’re adding value. What did you do that day before that train?

UPGRADE: Went to see some friends. Yeah, not much, but I meet some friends.

JASON:         What would you going to do?

UPGRADE: We had… I wouldn’t say dinner but it was… we met, we had some snacks. Talked.

JASON:         Talked about anything interesting?

UPGRADE: No, it was kind of just getting together and catching up.

JASON:         You know, man, that’s so crazy. I can’t believe what happened earlier. So you know it’s been a couple of years and I don’t know where this came from but I met up with like five my old best friends.


JASON:           Does that sounds like, oh, you know, that’s kind of cool.


JASON:           Now, you’re telling me right there you’re showing like leadership of men, you know, I’m controlling a group of my friends. You’re showing, oh, I have a lot of friends. You could even throw in like PDHB’s like you know, it was my friend Bill, and Samantha, and Jennifer, or something.


JASON:           Now, it’s on pre-selection because you’re hanging out with women.


JASON:           So those are examples of how you can really get that DHB concept down.

UPGRADE: Okay, yeah.

JASON:           So you have the things that we talked about: bringing the stories down, interesting, humor.


JASON:           Anymore questions or more clarification, I guess?

UPGRADE: No, I think I’m just going to have to like get some material and just use it over and over. And as I can start seeing the pattern here. Since—

JASON:           They [crosstalk]

UPGRADE: I like these points, so I’m going to try to, you know, get these, make sure they’re interesting and fun, and make them laugh, tips and something.

JASON:           Then do you see the direct correlation between using that and what could, what you’re results could be?


JASON:           Okay.

UPGRADE: I can definitely see that if I would chat that small talk and only stick to things that the RDHB’s that will make a big difference.

JASON:           Mm-hm. One thing I recently came across was a statement that said, every move is a marketing move.


JASON:           Everything you do, every story you tell, every word you say, the way you say it, you’re marketing yourself. You’re portraying who you are as a person.


JASON:           You only have to be at a certain percent just to be good. You have to be at a higher percent to be great.


JASON:           You know. But it has to start with getting good first.


JAMIE:          I was just going to add one last thing for you Upgrade and Jason, correct me, this is my opinion. Jason, you correct me if you think otherwise. I’d love to hear if you have a different opinion but you mentioned on the stories to be funny and interesting for the beginning. In my experience, maybe it’s because I come across a certain way or maybe because very few people really are Erick for example.

ERIC: How funny.

JAMIE:          And it’s the truth.

JASON:         Yeah.

JAMIE:          For me funny trumps interesting any day. Like when you make—


JAMIE:            Me go laugh like she’d rather be, she’d rather laugh and have some good hearty laugh with you than be fascinated with something. When I finally really internalized that, I just—the interesting thing, the interesting spike is a bonus. But first and foremost, something like the best friends test is great because it is funny. It’s funny, you can use the kind of keep hitting certain spikes over and over again and keep making—oh, my god! See guys? I did it again. You can do that but that’s the main value. It just so happens to be interesting. So Upgrade, my point for you and especially, I think in your case, because we’ve spoken for some months now, that’s really good, that’s really going to give you the most juice to squeeze.

JASON:           Hmm.

JAMIE:            Really focus on being funny not interesting.

UPGRADE: Yeah. Okay.

JAMIE:            You following me? And it doesn’t work—being interesting works for me in grounding material. It doesn’t work for me quite as well in the beginning because it’s very easy because off I’m so into what I do. They get very passionate and very like, Mr. Passionate Guy. Nobody gives a s*** about that.

JASON:           Yeah.

JAMIE:            You just want her to f***ing laugh.  It is not laughing at you, like so veer from that if you can, because unless your name is Erik Von Markovik, it’s going to be very difficult.


JAMIE: Okay. I get, you might be the exception by the way. I have to throw that out there. We’re just trying to give you ideas that will give you the quickest path potentially to where you want to go.


JAMIE: Do you have a different opinion, Jason? This is my thought, it’s my experience.

JASON:          No. I completely agree, yeah. If I start getting into interesting and passion like I had to be able to catch myself before I go to into it.

JAMIE: Yeah. It’s amazing like though. It’s just like alright, this guy is a little intense. And it was kind of nice talking to you. But you got to be willing to fail, Upgrade. You got to do edgy, you got to go for stuff. Don’t think for a second that I, as well as any other coach out there does not have the times worth just because it doesn’t go so well. You got to be willing to fail. You got to be willing to try something to see what’s going to happen like be little edgy. Where she says like, wow… this is the last thing I promise and then I let you some kind of a close if he has anything.  Remember being on a date with this girl where kind of us, whatever kind of…  whatever it was some time ago, and then within the conversation I said to her, I said, so this is about half an hour ago so—what’s your favorite position? She responded to me, she’s like, “You can’t ask me that! You don’t know me1” She kind of went off a little bit and—


JAMIE:            It didn’t go so well in the end but that’s okay. Ultimately, you find ways to kind of craft that to fine tune this type of things so does pay off when I had a great routine that works really, really well and you have your objection handlers just in case. But you just have to be willing to again, people—great people before me said it very well. You got to be willing to lose this set and you got to be willing to fail. Just kind of what it is, because small talks could not get you anywhere. That’s for sure.


JAMIE:            That’s a dead man walking.


JAMIE: Anyway.

JASON:           Yeah.

JAMIE:            Jason, anything else before we kind of close up shop here?

JASON: No. Yeah. I completely agree. You’re going to fail and if you’re going to fail, fail and fail fast because you learn all the objections.



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